Just saw this in my notifications.
A few thoughts...
-Do you mean entities that sent me bitcoin in the past, whirlpool participants, or both?
-I'm not worried about the tx0 being briefly known before it is mixed (not connected to my identity), buying KYC free makes it irrelevant if I'm only going to spend on the other side of a mix.
-To my knowledge, another big thing lacking from Wasabi that would make it a more robust protocol is postmix spending tools and paynyms
I want to caveat that I would never use Wasabi even if they had a superior method (imo they don't if you are remixing. As a single mix, I can maybe see your argument in isolation possibly). If they are going to censor inputs and work with chain analysis companies that already disqualifies them as a privacy tool. If they hadn't taken that stance, I might be more open to their new implementation.
To attempt fighting my bias, I'll leave you with this short article by Shinobi. He makes a measured criticism of both of us:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/wasabi-vs-samourai-for-bitcoin-mixing
That is fair, I'm just answering your question specifically about scaling solutions that you asked. I think Fedi has the most potential in solving privacy issues and minimizing custodial trust, but it is still custodial.
Lightning is nothing like what was promised so far. Everyone uses it like a Paypal 2.0 which makes me wonder what the point ever was. I prefer being on-chain for bitcoin atm and coinjoining.
The "save in bitcoin-only" model makes sense. It has done well long-term so far.
isnt almost any update on monero a hardfork?
>Yes. Strong aversion to touching the monetary policy in the community though. Updates are mostly efficiency and privacy enhancing.
does monero have a scaling solution?
>Confirmations are only really a problem for in-person purchases or time-critical digital purchases. Doesn't make much difference for online purchases if you have to wait for a physical item to ship.
Two options currently:
(1) Wait 2 minutes, (2) Instant transactions already available: Some merchants already accept 0 conf in both bitcoin and monero. Just price in the risk.
...or wait for Monero second-layer solutions: https://www.getmonero.org/resources/roadmap/
when you buy your monero in a kyc setup or hold it on an exchange then its not useful.
>Agree. Not unique to Monero though. And if you withdraw the trail ends. With bitcoin you have to actively attain you privacy after withdrawing.
If you want more privacy on bitcoin just use liquid, lightning network, coinjoins or chaumian eCash
>Liquid and eCash: Custodial,
>Lightning: Centralizing and not final settlement (and mostly used custodially right now),
>Coinjoin: Can be good privacy if you know what you're doing, but even if done correctly it is still inferior to Monero in ease, quality, and comprehensiveness. Doesn't hide receiver or amounts, and ip isn't obfuscated.
If it achieves every aspect of monero non-custodially I'll use it.
But these things seem to always come at a price. I'm left wondering what the trade-offs would be.
Was a rhetorical statement
Let us know when Cashu is non-custodial then we can pass on the torch 🗽
No hate. If people absolutely must use bitcoin custodially, Cashu is the best way imo.
Class:
Referral Link Samourai
Abilities:
[Shadow of a Ronin] Casts an illusion effect on other players. Any custodial bitcoin is temporarily treated as authentic bitcoin. Other players roll a perception check. If they pass, your illusion immediately drops.
[Mass Seppuku Frenzy] Separates money from state by linking identity to bitcoin purchases. Reveal all your cards to enemy players. Allies roll an intelligence check. If they fail, Mass Seppuku Frenzy also applies to them.
When you say "Doxxic change is split up before the mix so there is nothing revealed", that's obviously wrong because I clearly just revealed the doxxic change of the equal sized inputs being entered into the coinjoin.
A "perfect coinjoin" would not produce Doxxic change at all. As you can see, WabiSabi coinjoins do not create toxic change, nothing is "split up before the mix" so ALL of your coins are made private instead: https://mempool.space/tx/01a1a055719129397fb8344b5a09e6cfe72868c8e1d750e621d8b580c96bf77b
You revealed nothing new that wasn't already known pre-mix.
I think you are getting too hung up on doxxic change. It isn't the important part. No one is spending that or claiming it is not deterministically linked. We spend what is being mixed, after it is mixed.
Assume you already know the location of 0.75 bitcoin before a mix. I split 0.25 bitcoin off to the side to park as doxxic change, and the other 0.50 bitcoin goes into the 0.50 pool to mix.
What new information did you gain that wasn't already known? Now point to the postmix 0.50 that is mine that I'm actually going to use (again, im not spending the doxxic change). You can't.
By perfect coinjoin I mean equal amounts on either side + maximum # of interpretations or N*(multiple of N) mix. Why does this matter? Because every given output is exactly as likely to be from a given input as any other. Max uniformity/fungibility = better for privacy:
https://kycp.org/#/323df21f0b0756f98336437aa3d2fb87e02b59f1946b714a7b09df04d429dec2
This is Whirlpool 101 and the nature of perfectly uniform postmix coinjoins. It isn't "revealing" or "leaking" doxxic change. Doxxic change is split up before the mix, not after, so there is nothing revealed . Zero deterministic links to anything postmix.
Doxxic change is unavoidable if you want perfect coinjoins. The initial inputs before mixing are naturally not going to be equal to those of other mix participants. You can just mix the doxxic change again when you build up enough.
https://sovrnbitcoiner.com/perfect-coinjoins-are-the-points-of-reference-to-any-collaborative-tx/
I see a lot of "save in bitcoin, spend in monero" types in both communities. I've always found myself in both worlds appreciating aspects and POV of both.
Wouldn't even be here at all if it wasn't for you Guy! Your first time on Dave Smith pulled me into your podcast and deep into bitcoin! Will always be grateful to you for that!🙏
Seeing this stat again: “…transactions can be traced in 60% of cases to get a usable lead.”
But what does that mean? Are they using pure chain analysis, or are they catching users at fiat on/off ramps? Are they raiding homes and finding wallets and seed phrases?
If the number is truly 60%, why aren’t we seeing more press releases about huge #monero #xmr takedowns like we do with other cryptos? Perhaps that will happen in the future, but for now I say it’s FUD.
https://bitcoinist.com/how-traceable-monero-transactions-compared-bitcoin/
Users trading Monero on CEXes?... 😂
But seriously it is probably something external to monero, as you say on/off ramps, where they are "tracing" would be my guess.
I watched the full video that the article mentions and he doesn't elaborate. The vagueness of the claim on what they mean exactly, and name of the website seems somewhat suspect to me. Clickbait?
Crime and money laundering is the excuse, but we know it's really about control. Otherwise, USD would be at the top of that blacklist.
I see Monero, at the very least, a haven of last resort for those that need it. Not necessarily adopted by broader society.
That being said, black and grey markets are something like a quarter of global GDP, so plenty of room to grow and thrive there...
If Bitcoin achieves virtually every benefit of Monero with eCash, I can't see why Monero community wouldn't use it. Loyal to the goal and spirit of Monero, not the name. The loss of custody with eCash is quite a big deal though.
With eCash you gain convenience, privacy (from both the mint and others), and cheap transactions. The trade off for all that is loss of custody. But Fedimints offer a trust minimized version of that. The mint can have multiparty custody to at least reduce the likelihood of being rugged.
A few episodes on Fedimints if you want to learn more:
https://optoutpod.com/episodes/s3e01-fedimints/
https://stephanlivera.com/episode/331/
https://www.whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/fedimint-the-future-of-bitcoin-custody
Chaumian Ecash is really interesting and a step in the right direction, like with Fedimints, but the custodial nature is still just that. Custodial.
Will keep my eyes on it though and see how it develops.