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tetricky
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Of course. Bad people will always find ways to do bad things.

The only question is does society make things easy for them, or hard. Do we set values and standards, and introduce a jeopardy in contravening them. Or just leave it to the individual.

My view is that freedom confers a responsibility on the individual, If we value the benefits of membership of society and the safety, prosperity and opportunity, that it confers on us, we must protect it.

We protect it by agreeing collectively the values of our society, by gathering together and saying that adhering to those standards is the cost of membership, and holding the people and our appointed representatives equally democratically accountable for those values and behaviors.

If you don't believe in that you are antidemocratic, and antisocial, by definition.

I genuinely hope that your values around gun control lead to the better social outcomes that I'm sure that we both hope for. I just don't agree with you.

I do value the honest engagement, and hope for the best outcomes for us all.

Thank you. I enjoyed that.

So it's the state shooting children in schools?

You've got the gun. What are you going to do about it?

Having a gun is no answer. It's part of the problem. The other is the wrong people being able to get them too easily.

Thats what I'm saying.

Do you not think there is degree of tyranny in giving unsuitable people access to guns, leaving the general population unable to defend their children from potential everyday slaughter?

Someone being able to legally aquire an automatic weapon, and slaughter children attending school, doesn't seem to massively influence this.

No of course not, but I'm sure that you would support reasonable control measures so that other members of society could live their lives free from the tyranny of fear, from the threat of out of control gun abuse?

Who are you going to resist with your gun? I'm not convinced that you can get the people that you need to in your sights.

It's also about socialization and democracy, winning the argument for a majority of people to create a fair and just world. Which isn't helped by individuals thinking that they are the big dog, and their view should take precedence. Particularly if they end up going tonto and taking out the wrong targets.

Replying to Avatar Greg

I'm sorry, but it was not clear to me from his description that he breached the peace or did anything illegal, but I may have misunderstood. I gather he is in Canada, so does Canada require a license for a few people to gather together in a park? Is religious activity particularly illegal in public spaces? If so, I would consider that unjust. The large bulk of the human race throughout time has considered religion to be good for people, so a government that is trying to stamp it out is trying to keep a good thing from its people. That's sad.

You asked a question, "King of what?" and I tried to give you a straight-forward answer. What I gave you were just the facts of the Christian faith. If you want evidence, I am teaching a semester-long high school course called "Evidence for Christianity," so I can give you lots of evidence.

You said that I may be wrong. That's possible, but I do try to seek the truth the best I can. I'm going to tell people what I believe to be true; anything else would be lying.

I was an atheist many years ago. I was very scientifically minded, and I read an essay by my favorite science writer, Isaac Asimov, called "The Judo Argument" where he disproved several attempts to prove the existence of God by using science. At the end of the article, he surprised me by saying that although he knocked down those arguments, he did not *disprove* the existence of God. He said that according to science, the existence of God is an open question. Up to that point, I had assumed I should not believe in God because I wanted to be scientific, but I realized that to be truly scientific, I should be open to the possibility that God exists. Therefore, when about a year later, a friend showed me some evidence that the Bible is a supernatural book, I was ready to listen to him. The more I investigated the Bible, the more I was convinced that it is a true message from God. I became interested in going to church and things moved on from there. However, I didn't instantly find all truth. I wanted to go wherever the evidence led, and that took me through many twists and turns over the years until I finally ended up in the Catholic Church because I came to believe it is the Church that Jesus established.

If you are interested in a discussion, why don't you start by telling me what you think is the best reason to not believe in the Christian God? I can respond to that, and we can see where the discussion leads. If you're not interested in a discussion, I respect that, and I won't bother you further.

"I'm sorry, but it was not clear to me from his description that he breached the peace or did anything illegal, but I may have misunderstood."

Signs? Yes

Sound system? Yes

Audience? Yes

Performer? Yes

Licence for event in public space? No

Consideration for other users of public space? No

Blame the police and religious intolerance though, eh?

You all should perhaps learn to read better, if you are going to base your life on a book.

Oh I have. All the proof I need.

I enjoyed the chat.

Try not to scare children trying to enjoy the park, on account of your completely unsubstantiated view of the world.

What, like a fossil record, the complete lack of evidence of heaven, and the contradiction in claiming that your homie is king of a universe that for centuries the 'word of god' insisted didn't exist, while maintaining an earth centric view of 'all creation'?

I know that you couldn't see a compelling argument if it hit you on the arse, from what you have already said. You already know this stuff, you just refuse to see it.

There's no point having a battle of the minds, if you are going to come unarmed.

I'm glad to hear that you know that's utter nonsense, and were just promoting it as a reflex reaction. As you do.

I was starting to worry about you bruh.

So you state as fact, a series of beliefs, without any evidence. That can easily be explained by someone telling you something that isn't true, and you swallow the whole thing?

Then you ignore the facts that the pastor told you that he had breached the peace by holding an unlicenced event, with a PA, in a public park, and the police had attended, and conclude that he'd done nothing wrong?

There's nowt as queer as folk.

Your god is obviously sending you a sign. And he's sending me one too.

You believe that your god promotes justice, not only for yourselves, but for all people. Which you interpret as doing what you think is right irrespective of the impact on others.

*spoiler*

You may* be wrong.

* you definitely are, and about all of it.

You started it. You said "Tear down your idols, the monuments you’ve built.

Throw it all away."

Then you went wittering on about creators and kings.

I like your upgrade, the MC5, much better.

Kick out the jams.

These are all things that go together a treat.... and it's definitely something I've eaten in the last week!

Damn right. That's the kind of respect I deserve.

Now what's this rubbish about a creator?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm promoting tolerance without an ounce of rage in me.

What did you mean by defend yourself? The implication was fight for yourself, no? I'm saying tolerate and socialise. You are saying stand for yourself.

You seem to be getting yourself into a knot.