I know. I specifically singled out Zeus as an example of how it should be done in one of the notes.

It was meant as a joke (and critique).

There are heuristics to determine the amount of users, nothing certain.

Been studying https://foundation.xyz/passport-prime/ from nostr:nprofile1qqsg8k9myvegcelvu2klzvrdh9lr7qnms57chkhjymgpcts09n4dutspzemhxue69uhkummnw3ezumtfd3hh2tnvdakz7qghwaehxw309aux6u3ww4ek2mn0wd68ytn0wfnj7qgmwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhx7unpdenk2urfd3kzuer9wchs3ct77k, looks interesting so far.

Perhaps it'll interest you too!

Easy! Run the public electrum server they connect their wallet to.

Same with bitcoin, neither one scales at it exists now. There's nowhere near enough block capacity for even 1/4 of people on the planet to open a channel in any timely fashion.

The IP issue is a bit different, in lightning your peer will know your IP, but also your channel id, balance, etc. Compounding that is the fact that the non-custodial lightning wallets (where you don't run a node on the phone a la zeus) that are more widely used, use trampoline routing. So they know who you're paying.

In Monero you have the issue where a malicious node can error out as you attempt to spend, and if you resubmit the tx one of the outputs in the decoys will remain constant, revealing that you own it.

As far as I know that's the only thing. But yes, at the network level, use Tor and to some extent mitigate either scenario (which 99% of users will never do of course).

The LN scenario leaks more info if you compare them side by side.

Regarding the funds potentially being stolen after 2w, it's not about the attacker predicting the future or not. It's about there being a constant risk as well as the incentive to do so.

Since most (99%+) channels are public, and since most user channels are not involved in routing, it is trivial for an attacker to monitor usage patterns and increase their odds.

I don't know about you, but for me I would not risk having on lightning any amount that I would regret losing in the first place, first because it's a hot wallet (pretty much the entire network is, really, which is yolo at its finest), second because a year from now when I check, the funds might just not be there anymore.

There is also the issue of upkeep. I don't run any LN nodes anymore because the hassle simply wasn't worth it.

Finally, regarding edge cases, yes they exist, but the known ones will be going away with FCMP soon™. They're easy enough to work around with, but I agree, it's a weakness. A small one in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't have to be there - which is why they're going away.

About the catastrophic bug, yes, I am aware. And it was luck indeed.

But don't forget Bitcoin has suffered a catastrophic inflation bug (see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident ) in the past, requiring a rollback of the chain (which never happened in Monero), as well as a host of serious bugs that would've ground the network to a halt (could link them here, but they're easy to find).

In other words, software has bugs.

Lightning, incidentally, has had its fair share of trainwreck bugs as well as potential ones (see https://protos.com/bitcoin-lightning-bug-could-jam-and-steal-millions-of-dollars/ and https://protos.com/bitcoin-lightning-network-users-could-have-lost-millions-in-jamming-attack/ and https://protos.com/researchers-discover-critical-bitcoin-lightning-network-vulnerability/ and dozens of others), further cementing in my mind that it's not worth it to risk having a lot of money there.

And because using lightning non-custodially implies opening channels, and each onchain tx is another nail in the coffin privacy-wise.. I end up defaulting to Monero most of the time.

Now, don't get me wrong, it would actually be less friction if I could use BTC privately without all the tradeoffs just mentioned, since I basically hodl zero Monero proportional to Bitcoin.

But I care about privacy as a human right a lot, and unfortunately Bitcoin and privacy rarely go well in the same sentence.

I wish that were different, but it isn't right now, at least not satisfactorily in my analysis, which is exactly why I use Monero.

nostr:nevent1qqsdwucxszkkdt9uefmhcvw9dmf743j4qnmy9qlfy2fp8a4k3ddzzugpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvuhsygqapqs2chzvkdlt0ryt0p2lclt9t5pwtth8yvfuzht74l0w7x3h6vpsgqqqqqqscmpkrs

Sorry, not sure how to link this properly, but I answered someone else regarding LN vs Monero earlier.

As always, it's a matter of tradeoffs. I use both, and if merchants accepted both equally, I would end up defaulting to LN to up to about $1000 and anything else Monero.

It's not just about LN channel liquidity either, all LN wallets are hot, and I'm only comfortable holding so much in a hot wallet.

As Sowell used to say, there are no solutions, only tradeoffs.

Right! Same with monero, except higher amounts because it's not custodial like ecash.

But yes, since it bleeds constantly (as with everything else) against Bitcoin, it's best to hold a proportionally small amount for spending.

Would you not find it disingenuous to call ecash a shitcoin because it's ruggable and can even be fractionally reserved? Those are fair points, but that does not a shitcoin make.

Like every other thing, it has tradeoffs.

Now imagine calling the most recognized private and anonymous (cash-like) layer1 on the planet just because it's not bitcoin.. can you see how uneducated and vulgar that sounds?

And to top it off, you're not the usual run of the mill dumb maxi, you understand programming and cryptography.

Anyone who looks objectively and can understand how Monero works, knows that it is a marvel of engineering.

Beyond the tech aspect, you can also think that its very existence is doing everyone a favour, since without privacy and anonymity bitcoin is just another surveillance tool in a long repertoire of surveillance tools.

Fuck man, you get this, which is why you're developing what you're developing.

Monero stands at the front right now, shielding everyone else. It's already been delisted from most CEX. Bitcoin not only hasn't, it's been embraced by the system.

Why do you think that is?

Nothing against it being embraced by the system per se btw, I am happy with that and my bags get heavier, but let's not pretend it's only been embaced because it's as transparent as a Socialist's lack of understanding of economics.

So, you see. I don't get the fanaticism. Monero is a tool, if you think you should be able to make transactions without leaving behind an eternal transparent breadcrumb trail - and presumably you do, as an ecash dev - then any and every tool that helps normalize that, you ought to stand behind, on moral grounds.

But you don't, or your maxi friends will kick you out. Like so many others, you seem to be trapped in the groupthink.

No offense man, I appreciate the work you do. But Christ, it's ridiculous, they don't even need to divide us, we do it to ourselves.

But you would hold random bitcoin IOUs from random ruggable ecash mints online. Thst's so much better than holding #monero right?

That's what turning Bitcoin into a religion does to people.

You can be staring at the obvious and not see the truth because your holy dogma prevents it.

That is ideal for a few other reasons yes, but the point stands that you cannot be traced for eternity even if you KYC'd and used Monero, which seems sensible to me.

Well said!

Downstream effects of radical and unwise transparency resulting in very deficient pseudonymity and zero privacy.

A law is pretty meaningless if it can't be enforced.

It cannot be enforced without surveillance.

Zero privacy makes it pretty easy to enforce.

#monero fixes this.

Try sending even 10k USD worth of BTC over lightning, see what happens.

Any funds you have on lightning sit on a hot wallet, also. Do you want to keep a small fortune hot? I don't.

Did you catch that bug recently uncovered and silently fixed where channels could be drained up to 98% capacity? I guess you didn't. Fortunately it wasn't exploited.

Finally, if you are not online for awhile and have funds on lightning, your channel peer can steal your funds. That is why it is strongly suggested that you regularly open your wallet.

Also, to open a channel you need an onchain tx. Your utxo being used to open that channel is public knowledge, and your channel balance is public knowledge.

Don't forget your lightning peer knows your IP, and also, that in the most widely used non-custodial wallets, trampoline routing is in effect, which in practice means your lightning peer knows how much and to whom you are paying.

And then you have #monero which, you know, just works.

It's not Monero thaf's a shitcoin, it's you who's a bit ignorant :) Work on that ignorance and be a bit humble and you will see that both lightning and Monero are good tools in the good fight for financial privacy.

Newspeak for information control & censorship.

Monero fixes this.

Based level: infinity

Just use Monero.

Bitcoin L1 privacy&anonymity will always be a problem unless those attributes are baked in like in Monero, which they probably will never be.

BTC for hodling, XMR for spending. Makes sense to me.

What's going in Honduras?

Socialism.

Invite the barbarians in, barbarous stuff happens.

Point it out, be called a racist and accused of hate speech™.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to clown world.

Just look at the hair, he always was a Monero guy!

I don't know when people are going to wake up to the fact that the EU is a growing totalitarian state, but I sure hope it's soon.

Also, fuck them. Unenforceable.