Avatar
Dan Gould
2658362c3137eaa801fae404be36ffc80e16a61c43a891a3a046bec4b72e498a
obsessed with the bitcoin privacy problem, payjoin, snowmobile trails, and armchair 漢學

nostr:npub1spralxq6jlw5rdy0249vqr5sh43rfrlx2wzv3rhjjqedw559w9psrs8s72 nostr:npub185h9z5yxn8uc7retm0n6gkm88358lejzparxms5kmy9epr236k2qcswrdp Thank you for entrusting me to foster Grumpy at rust-bitcoin Summit. He found his forever home at MIT DCI

has generative ai given rise to a new type of software worker who is neither a developer nor applies engineering principles yet produces results as a product mainly of extracting results from software?

“Thanks for picking that up for me! I will Venmo you the money.”

“Oh I don’t have Venmo but I can do bitcoin, CashApp, or PayPal”

*radio silence*

Even if bitcoin has world-class UX, I’m not sure if we’ll ever see widespread adoption until we can figure out how to release the absolute chokehold Venmo has on people, especially millennials.

CashApp may not be self custody but at least I can live my bitcoin life if someone uses it to send me money. Venmo has normalized digital payments so much that it’s changed how people behave and has become a verb. Nobody bothers to split bills anymore and they have stopped carrying cash. Why? Because they “can just Venmo you”.

I can see stack overflow error happening in real time when I tell my friends I don’t have Venmo because I don’t believe they created the social feature in good conscience and think it’s an awful thing for Venmo to try and normalize the destruction of financial privacy. Yes, you can now make transactions private, even if it’s not the default. No, I don’t care. I’m dying in this hill. I don’t want to link my fiat ass bank account to ANOTHER system when PayPal, which owns Venmo does the exact same thing. And you know what? People have been using PayPal since the dawn of the Internet 2.0. You already have it! And if I’m going to use a newer, mobile, digital payment solution, it’s going to be CashApp because at least I can turn that money you owe me into bitcoin, which is what I actually prefer you pay me back in. To add to that, Block and Jack Dorsey have done so much for the Bitcoin ecosystem. Of course I want to support CashApp!

In my experience the hierarchy is:

1. Venmo

2. Zelle

3. Cash (middle ground for “you don’t want to set up CashApp? Weird because I don’t want to set up Venmo!”)

4. “I’ll get your lunch next time”

5. MAYBE PayPal or CashApp

6. Not getting your money back

7. bitcoin

So what do I want? Obviously the Bitcoin Standard, but if I can’t have that I want to make cash great again and more people using bitcoin compatible payment solutions.

I encourage everyone to join me in a crusade of maximum pain for anyone trying to use something that is not this. We all deserve better! A win-win would be if Venmo integrated bitcoin so then all my Venmo using friends could transact with whoever they wish, using a free and open monetary protocol.

For starters it would probably help if I was more often in the scenario of needing to pay people back instead of the other way around…

curious if you’d have luck asking them to send bitcoin from venmo

I’ve seen no kyc regulated financial services are viable for small amounts (i.e. less than $1k). Could an institution offer a mint and somehow cap amounts with range proofs?

Replying to Avatar JeffG

Ok – so Signal is great. Good encryption, etc. Obviously, the main thing that we want to improve there is the centralized coordinator in the middle.

My original proposal was an adaptation of the Signal protocol for Nostr. https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/2169fab971591d0b4a450ef08aeb6301c5d2a0da/104.md

But I got lots of feedback on that one that 1) group messaging needs to be first class and 2) multiple device support needs to be first class. Both of these are actually the same thing - supporting groups.

With the signal protocol, the way that the symmetric encryption works, when you're in a group, you're effectively creating a DM to every member of the group, encrypting it separately, and sending it out. Signal makes this feel like less of a big deal because they do some tricks on the server side to make it less heavy for the client.

In the nostr version of the signal protocol, you have no server to do work for you, so your device has to do all that work itself.

With MLS, because it's using a different data structure (binary trees) for managing encryption keys and users in a group, you go from a situation where group scaling is a linear problem (each new user in a group adds the same amount of work for all clients) to a log problem (where each new user in a group adds wayyyy less work for all clients).

There are also other benefits of MLS.

1) it's about to be an internet standard (like TLS, etc) so we conceivably get interoperability with other networks/clients

2) it's built to allow for the use of multiple ciphersuites and the graceful change/upgrade of the ciphersuites over time.

The only drawback is that it's very complex and very new. My work so far on getting MLS to Nostr has been focused on updating dependency libraries to allow for support of schnorr signatures over the secp256k1 curve (what nostr - and bitcoin - uses). I'm very convinced this is the right long-term solution for private messaging on Nostr but it's going to take a bit longer to get it probably ready for implementation.

If you haven't see it already, you can follow along with what I'm doing in my weekly posts. Also, if you're interested in working with me on all this, that'd be awesome.

nostr:naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzq9eemymaerqvwdc25f6ctyuvzx0zt3qld3zp5hf5cmfc2qlrzdh0qqxnzdejxy6rzwf5xvmnwveh25uk9n

Must we assume the server does no work on behalf of the user? Is it it possible to have a server do more and explicitly advertise NIP-X support or is that not Nostrly?

Using Payjoin for better batching of all sorts of activity is the goal. Sounds like you just get it 🔥

Any major snags or changes to propose?

Putting the reps in with Payjoin Dev Kit I see 🫡 nostr:note1x74psc7wu2garkr3qzzu5z3jhsaev4lnpelalmnzw9nmhsmkaygss3pr6a

Replying to Avatar Matt Corallo

Curious about this new BIP 353/Human Readable Names thing but don’t have a wallet that supports it yet? Want to see if you set it up right?

Head over to https://satsto.me/ to resolve them to legacy addresses!

It’s not just BOLT12, either, any reusable bitcoin addresses can go in there (but preferably ones that don’t cause on-chain address reuse)!

The BIP recommends Tor or VPN for private DNS querying. Was ODoH considered? I assume it was avoided because it tries to avoid HTTP, but in web clients of course HTTP is available