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Ben Ewing
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Replying to Avatar vinney...axkl

First recognize that _all_ property is private property. That's important context.

If you step on my property, I'll require you to have insurance.

If you murder someone, that person will (likely) have insurance that pays their estate in the event of their murder. Once insurance has paid the claim, they will attempt to collect funds from you. Your insurance will cover you for that. If there are disputes along the way here, private enforcement agencies will deal with that on their employers' behalf. The easiest, cheapest, least-violent (unnecessary violence is expensive, as we're seeing) way to handle those disputes will probably be through arbitration, which the enforcement agencies will mostly align on in order to economize and work efficiently. No where has coercion been introduced.

If you _don't_ have proper insurance, you are unlikely to be allowed on most private property. So to the extent that you'd like to operate normally in society, you'll carry the level of insurance that allows you to do so.

If you're a truly antisocial, masochistic criminal who opts to carry no insurance and attempts to go on a crime spree, the first bit of private property you step on will find you in violation of their "entry requirements" and will use force to repel you, and nobody in the voluntary society will see that as unjustified, as you willfully violated a contract that warned against your subsequent behavior.

Given that nearly every (voluntary) contract at any level will have large penalties for murder, it would essentially be taken as a universal that "murder is 'illegal' ". That's a spontaneous, bottom-up "rule" that doesn't require a State to prescribe. Freely-associating individuals can arrive at that.

I'm getting too tired to wrap my head around this tonight, but my first reaction is that this is way to complicated to work in practice. Why is everyone just magically insured? Like how do we go from here to there? How do I know what level of insurance I need to go where, if each individual property owner can require that of me independently? How do they know what level of insurance I have, and how can they detect fraud? Isn't the arbitration just a court system? So then how to fund that without preventing thugs from free riding knowing that if it is underfunded they can steal stuff again? A dollar spent on private enforcement protecting my property would be a better use of my funds than funding arbitrators. So reverse tragedy of the commons again, until it all falls apart when you can't protect your basic stuff.

Thank you tesla liberty for following me. I hope your battery forever stays charged

I always do that. Most people laugh at me or think I'm an idiot because they can't see what I can see

Like if you murder someone you prob going to prison. So the police come and arrest you and take you away

You started this convo saying you'd prefer barbarians raiding ancient rome to the roman state. So not a straw man- literal reality for hundreds of years. And yes, one solution is to have nothing to be stolen. Have fun with that freedom. Maybe you can find a cave to live in no one wants to take from you. Not sure a drone swarm will be viable in a world where there are no preemptive centralised rules against violence. A helmet might work, but the thugs might have bats?

So some thug comes up behind you and knocks you out and takes your stuff. How do you decend against that?

Phone relationships are not teal relationships. If you really beer that person they not gonna help you

THANK YOU NOISEVAULT FOR FOLLOWING ME

It's fun when you say something kinda technical to someone and when they lazily say 'what is that' expecting you to dumb it down so they don't have to think and instead you make it even more technical😆