Sure, but not at the risk of fundamnetally altering the miner incentive model. DC puts far more governance responsibities on miners and makes them custodians. The risk is not worth the reward, if it could be achieved via other layer 2 solutions that don't alter miner incentives.

If Drivechains cant bring value, independent of the chain it is implemented on, it sounds like drivechains needs bitcoin more than bitcoin needs drivechains.

I am sorry but that argument conflicts with even what Paul Sztorc himself speculates what might happen on an altcoin. He thinks Drivechains has so much utility value that it might actually cause Litecoin (or another alt) to rise significantly in price, creating a new network effect that challenges Bitcoin's!

You suggest that the base layer won't be compromised, but the base layer carries is an emergent model of competing incentives that will absolutely be altered on the side of the miners. Paul has even speculated that a sidechain could dominate transaction volume, so the majority use case could actually have its security model wateres down to trusting miner custody.

Sigwit was first implemeted on litecoin. Why not put DC on litecoin? That probably has sufficient POW and could demonstrate any unanticipated incentive model issues.

There pretty much is no logic to people pushing #Drivechain. They just want to invent new solutions to issues that have a solution. In the end they will only invent new issues

Drivechains has been an open proposal for years, available for any POW chain to implement and permit the experimentation. If utility and experimentation are an objective value proposition, why hasnt any POW chain jumped at the opportunity, and (excuse my ignorance) if they have, why havent they surpassed bitcoin in adoption?

Liquidity and adoption has nothing to do with privacy. Bitcoin is a transparent ledger for good reason. Monero has a private ledger for good reason.

I'd like to think we can agree that monero and bitcoin and like a shark and a lion. Different beasts and impossible to pit against each other. I see them as having two very distinct qualities. Monero is great for private spending, not so clever for long term saving. Bitcoin is great for transparent saving, not so clever at spending.

For the record, I have held equal units of both for many years and it's served me well in both regards.

lol, so instead of working in the system conditions presented and innovating. Like making clients to streamline the complexity of atomic swaps (which would increase demand and liquidity). you rather force the system rules to change for you because you know whats best....

3 logical terms come to mind when I hear about #diechain. ego, greed, and opportunism. innovation needs to be organic. this is not.

Dude, we have Atomic swaps….

I'm not trying to say they (drivechains) themselves are instrumental but IMO they're just a way to keep the #Bitcoin miners more profitable while they continue to suppress the fiat price of #bitcoin as the same miners will be able to collect fiat from these coins they mine even when the fiat price of #btc is low.

Some of my thoughts on the recent DRIVECHAIN topic..

What do you think the odds are that all these recent efforts to push additional assets into the L1 #Bitcoin chain such as taro, ordinals, inscriptions, and now #drivechains could just be attempts by the #tradfi regime to break the #Bitcoin miners economic Game Theory relating to the block reward and turn layer 1 bitcoin into a fiat printer? To me this seems probable as they likely need to figure out a way to sustain their mining operation investments without dumping piles of external cash into them should the block reward fall below the cost of production of the #Bitcoin reward in fiat terms (as we're still stuck in a fiat world) since most of these folks do not possess money printers directly. So rather than letting their miners go broke trying to keep the fiat price down and fund the operations by selling the Bitcoin for fiat, they can just create a bunch of BS tokens and junk in the blockchain that they can trade for fiat currency instead.

This would allow #tradfi more time to strategically position themselves and infiltrate key #bitcoin industry players (and influencers) before #Hyperbitcoinization and would also allow them to wait out some of the hodlers who will not be willing to take their Bitcoins to their graves in hopes that they would sell them back to them so they can control a Fiat price even longer.

Since I truly believe that they can't incentivize a lot of us hardcore Bitcoin mindset folks to sell for their Fiat currency, the thought by #tradfi is apparently that they will instead attempt to control a lot of the infrastructure for the future Hyperbitcoinization world or a world that they think they may have a chance at influencing the protocol development in some roundabout way to their benefit ( which I don't see plausible as I think we will see right through it all).

So far here's some main red flags I see from a self sovereignty #bitcoin maximalist perspective who's goal is to push self custody #bitcoin and has hopes for the separation of (all) states from currency:

- The largest #tradfi players snapping investments in the top big players in the #bitcoin mining space (Blackrock, Fidelity, etc.)

- The same #tradfi players + are all tripping over each other begging the SEC to green light spot ETFs as to be able to create even more paper Bitcoin. - This simultaneously attempts to get Main St to normalize counterparty risk in Bitcoin via #tradfi by investing and accepting their ETFs in lieu of Self custody BTC.

IMO these activities are all part of their goal of attempting to keep the bitcoin price in USD suppressed as long as possible and to do that they need to break the bitcoin economic game theory incentives built into bitcoin where miners are only rewarded with 21MM #btc and TX fees and make fiat other ways with their miners such as by adding #ordinals, #insciptions and are now seemingly trying to push for drivechains to get 💩 tokens in L1.

By breaking the #btc miners economic game theory with just the block reward (but now with ordinals, inscriptions, and if they have their way soon too be DRIVECHAIN bs tokens) they're hoping the price in fiat can be suppressed even longer while allowing them the ability to generate enough fiat currency stuff contained to fund their operations and more time to control even more of the miners and simultaneously hoping to wait out as many HODLers as possible in the hopes that eventually some will sell their #bitcoin and thus they can scoop it up for a relatively cheap amount of fiat which would allow them to control the fiat value of the #btc longer and in turn which would keep the fiat machine alive longer and hence the monopoly of currency in the governments hands.

Fortunately we can reject their plans of attacking the bitcoin miners economic incentive mechanism by not voting for their version of #bitcoin and running our own nodes. That said however I would not sell any of their forks that may happen as they'll likely scoop those up too and actually may drive the public perception that their chain is the true #btc as they drive it's fiat price up as to keep mainstream away from the ideals of the original #bitcoin ( decentralized, irreversible, confiscation resistant, separating money from state, no counterparty risk etc).

However the next few years play out it's going to be a very bumpy road and I am not selling any of my forks no matter how much Fiat they offer and will certainly never vote for anything that deviates from the original economic incentives that the miners have with the block reward.

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Users are not going to pay to post shit on Nostr, just like they don't pay to post on forums, reddit, 4chan and the various social networks.

Relay operators should look for alternative ways to monetize relays like ads, otherwise Nostr will die or will be a very small niche of users.

It’s bigger then I thought they aren’t done. They just added a 30+ft y’all ¿pole? On top of the house. nostr:note1s7346juuuak0kh8uwg5nxg8008vnzzztsye3hc9jw6ptafyau0yq2keqnk