This is where principles matter. Principles are not affected by facts or misinformation.

For example,

Whether one is IDF fighting what they think is ‘Hamas terrorist’ or one is a Hamas freedoms fighter fighting an oppressive occupying force, whether you believe either sides propaganda, that doesn’t justify murdering civilians, dehumanising them, give cause for abuse of POW etc. Allaah said in the Quraan

یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُونُوا۟ قَوَّ ٰ⁠مِینَ لِلَّهِ شُهَدَاۤءَ بِٱلۡقِسۡطِۖ وَلَا یَجۡرِمَنَّكُمۡ شَنَـَٔانُ قَوۡمٍ عَلَىٰۤ أَلَّا تَعۡدِلُوا۟ۚ ٱعۡدِلُوا۟ هُوَ أَقۡرَبُ لِلتَّقۡوَىٰۖ وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ خَبِیرُۢ بِمَا تَعۡمَلُونَ﴿ ٨ ﴾

“You who believe, be steadfast in your devotion to God and bear witness impartially: do not let hatred of others lead you away from justice, but adhere to justice, for that is closer to awareness of God. Be mindful of God: God is well aware of all that you do.”

Belief in one’s own propaganda should never lead one to commit crimes.

I support the Palestinians simply because they are an occupied people in occupied land. Nobody on planet earth disagrees with this besides Israel and USA. One can argue all they like, but this is a statement of fact. Not opinion. There are objective facts in the ground that one cannot ignore no matter how much one wants to

He’s talking about those who defend the brutal murder of 10’s of 1000’s of innocent women and children.

Live goes on for those with privilege.

From a tunnel in Gaza to a night club and dancing on TikTok; while others remain in their open air prison, as they have been for almost 2 decades now

https://x.com/NadaSayedd98/status/1731768158015373356?t=YQW5stryBWAZ3HsLUjNUqA&s=09

Can you love someone who thinks you’re a subhuman who deserves to die; you and your family? Honest question

Just to be clear, the likes of ISIS and those groups of deliberately target innocent civilians like placing bombs in shopping centres and public transport busses for example are grossly mistaken and evil. I just don’t accept that Hummus is like that.

Hitler was an evil man, if what they say that he did was true, and he no doubt had evil beliefs for sure. But if he left that, repented, rectified his situations than the door to forgiveness is always there. Unless you’re dead, and then it’s too late.

But best believe, there wasn’t much of a difference between him and the likes of Winston Churchill. They all shared similar evil ideas. It’s just that Hitler lost the war.

The above is about the lie being spread recently about ‘organise rapes’ or any rape for that matter. It never happened.

The first 10 min of this makes that clear as it dissects the allegation and the evidence for it. And most importantly the motivations behind the lie.

https://www.youtube.com/live/I5eCAsq9G4o?si=kyQONCveN3ejpG0X

If you want want to watch it that’s fine, you don’t have to, but in the same breath, one shouldn’t spread lies before taking the time to verify it. Allaah said in the Quraan

“If a sinful person comes to you with serious news then verify it, so that you don’t end up harming a people out of ignorance and then after they (when you discover the news was wrong) you return in regret”

The problem we have here is that in Islam we are supposed to love and hate for the sake of Allaah. Yes, you can love and hate some for personal selfish reasons but if they are outside the guidance and guild lines of Islam, then it’s not necessarily sanctioned. A few examples to clarify.

1) Some ideas are evil, and repugnant, but if I hated someone specifically just for that you may assume that this would justify all sorts of mistreatment. That’s normal for ‘hatred’. But in Islam we’re ordered to guide such people to righteousness and good behaviour, deed and beliefs. Why would you put effort to help someone if you “hated them”? That shows that it’s not the type of ‘hate’ you’re thinking of.

2) Likewise, you love someone, but only to a point whereby you don’t commit sinful deeds or mistreatment of anyone because of it. So if I was madly in love with a woman and she told me I must rob someone so i could get her some expensive ring, that love would be wrong and forbidden if it leads me to such a sin. Likewise, if would be prohibited for me to aid any fellow Muslims to oppress a non-Muslims, and in fact I am obligated to stop him. So although my aligences is towards my fellow Muslim, I cannot let that ‘love’ lead to sin. That’s not really love. The prophet Muhammad said: “Help your brother, whether he is oppressed or the oppressor”. His disciples said “we understand how to help him if he is oppressed, but how can we help him if he is an oppressor?” And said “stop him from his oppression”.

So when I say “hate someone for their idea” it’s not the same type of hatred a racist has for ‘the other’ for example.

So bringing it back to the original conversation. If I met someone who had no issue in the murder of innocent civilians , or they agreed with the use of nuclear bombs on civilians, I very easily hate that person for having it in them to accept such barbarism, but if I was able to get them to change their views through dialogue, and they changed, I would have zero reason to hate him further and in fact I would love him for his sincerity and goodness.

Check it out how? I don’t know what it is. I don’t even understand what it’s supposed to be? A website?

Thank you for your detailed reply. It seems like you think deeply about these things, and that’s a great thing. I often enjoy having conversations with intelligent deep thinkers.

I’ll just give short points of benefit on some of the things you mentioned.

1) Israel deliberately target civilising by their own admission. This is wrong for me, regardless if it’s to my Palestinians brothers and sisters, or to some indigenous tribe in the jungle.

Feel free to check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvJxI9nCr1k

2) Hummus does not deliberately target civilians nor does it want to “wipe out all Israelis”. You can take my word for it or just look at the confirmed actions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uxDgFkH-UI

3) I don’t ‘condemn Hamas’, as to ‘condemn’, means to pass a verdict of guilt for wrongdoing to a person/people. One needs to bring me what has been confirmed that they did deliberately that I can condemn. To this date, and I’ve followed this closely, I have no seen any evidence of deliberate crimes against civilians as part of a preplanned strategy. Did civliians die? Yes. Were they specifically targeted as part of the military strategy? The evidence shows that not to be the case. Did they beheaded babies, rape women, cut off heads, cut off breasts, cut out babies from women’s stomachs? Absolutely not. There are even plenty of examples of videos, that I’ve seen myself from Israeli sources, where they specifically made effort NOT to kill civilians? Even to ask if someone was a civilian or not, saying to people “protect them, don’t harm them”. This is from Israeli testimonies.

So if they took it as a strategy to target innocent civilians then I would confer that if proven, but I haven’t seen that.

https://news.sky.com/video/the-inside-story-of-how-thailand-secured-the-release-of-its-hostages-israel-hamas-war-13018139

In opposition to that, Israel, as i showed above, does deliberately target civilians.

That’s enough for now

The awakening is happening.

And one may wonder, why?

I was born into a Christian family and all my life before Islam I thought Muslims were just like Hindus. I didn’t think anything them. Until one day someone approached me and shocked me to my core. This compelled me to dig deeper.

The same thing happened during 911, peoples were shocked to their core which compelled many to dig deeper, and likewise, we see the same thing again here with Gaza. Islam, when one sees how Islam manifests itself on people, it compels one to ask the important questions, and when they see the answers given by Allaah, it touches there hearts.

I ask Allah to guide the non-Muslims to ask the right questions and to take the time to see what Islam has to say. The message of worshipping the Creator alone, and giving thanks to Him for all he has given, the ease in life and the trials. https://video.nostr.build/3a5bfa5eec343b670a8ece3266b39607146329743d17d1759354957e98efc287.mp4

So… Let’s be clear. lsraeI is deliberately targeting civilians and civilians are not just ‘dying by accent’. We have been pointing out the obvious for weeks now but finally something for those why point at the sun and say it’s still nighttime

https://youtu.be/IvJxI9nCr1k?si=E1YqDbaMIkeUeEqS

Just further example of the constant steam of Israeli lies, first 40 beheaded babies, command and control centre under shifaa, babies in ovens and now they ramped up their claims of “violent rapes”.

BUT…

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/cnn-report-claiming-sexual-violence-on-october-7-relied-on-non-credible-witnesses-some-with-undisclosed-ties-to-israeli-govt/

Errm, im a bit thrown of by your response here…not sure how it’s related or what you’re pointing me to?

I have learnt (but it mastered) two different forms of combative martial arts (judo and win chun) but not sure how it’s relevant to the war in Gaza. Feel free to clarify if you feel it adds value to the conversation

I’m sorry, but I thought I made it clear above. Let me try to be brief this time.

Can one person hate another?

Yes

Is it right to do so?

No, if it’s a hatred related to their physical self; like hating a person because they are ‘black’ or ‘french’ or ‘of Jewish decent’, but hating them because of who they choose to be, then of course. If someone chooses to be a mass murderer then yes, you hate him for his choices. We don’t care if he is an American or Muslim, where most serial killers are from, we only care about who the person is.

Does that hatred remove them from the pale of mercy, good and fair behaviour?

No, based on what i explained above. So if someone is an evil person, I would hate him for his evil, but that doesn’t mean I won’t try to stop him from that

Don’t waste your time. Some people are just wicked.

Thank you for your honesty. We’ve finally got to the meat of the issue here and the reality has been made clear. It is as I expected.

Here, I give you a gift 🎁. Maybe there’s something you can learn from it. Or not.

https://youtu.be/cbBpiYjl4gM?si=TrJdwb1ex_XEorQ0

So if it became clear to you that a large amount of civilians and civilian infrastructure was being deliberately killed in a clear attempt to take over land and ethnically cleanse the area, would that change your view? Or put another way, what would it take for you to believe the plight of the Palestinians? I can accept, if you say in good faith you genuinely don’t know, it’s all confusing, but assuming you did know, and it was clear to you, what then is wrong about hating those who support the killing of the Palestinian people?

And who would you believe then if the countless videos and images of dead women and children isn’t enough for you?

Errm 🤔

So what’s fedi then if it the fedimint software?

I fully understand your perspective, but a human can most definitely hate another human, and that’s not something anyone can realistically deny.

If one can, in a morally correct manner, hate someone who does evil, like how I hate Hitler for murdering many innocent civilians, I also hate the one who didn’t murder them but fully defends him and his ideology. That doesn’t mean that this hatred will cause me to be unjust or evil to them, as Allah commanded us not to do that, but that doesn’t mean one should love them as if their corrupt beliefs is somehow equal. They are not equal to Hitler, but deserve some level of rebuke. Allaah said about this specifically in the Quraan

لَّا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ لَمۡ یُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَلَمۡ یُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوۤا۟ إِلَیۡهِمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ یُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِینَ﴿ ٨ ﴾

and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.

Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 8

So Allaah orders being good and just with those who don’t materialise any corruption towards us. But Allah does say in the next verse in regards to those who act on their evil intentions

إِنَّمَا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ قَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَأَخۡرَجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ وَظَـٰهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰۤ إِخۡرَاجِكُمۡ أَن تَوَلَّوۡهُمۡۚ وَمَن یَتَوَلَّهُمۡ فَأُو۟لَـٰۤىِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ﴿ ٩ ﴾

But God forbids you to take as allies those who have fought against you for your faith, driven you out of your homes, and helped others to drive you out: any of you who take them as allies will truly be wrongdoers.

Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 9

One clear disclaimer to note, this hatred is for the actions and evil they contain, it doesn’t extend beyond that. So if they stop or change their ways, problem solved. Issue is resolved and not held in perpetuity.

So the fact they may be “brainwashed” is reason to spend time and effort to educate them.

The point I took from the video was that some people have held levels of evil that wasn’t previously noticed. I can never be a friend or likes someone who openly defends Israel’s actions to my brothers and sisters. They are my family.

Fair point. However, I will push back a bit here. We are not referring to clashes between fighters with random bullets flying here and there and people getting caught in the crossfire, or like a police shootout where innocent civilians get hit by stray bullets. We are talking about sending down bombs from the sky to hit targets where you know 100% that innocent civilians WILL DIE, not accidentally, but they ARE THERE, just to ‘potentially’ get a ‘bad guy’. The target may not be there but innocent civilians ARE definitely there.

So I’m not naive to think that civilians will never get flung into these situations, but we are talking about deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure to ‘potentially’ get a target. And I have not even brought up the reality that nobody is talking about, which is ‘how does one even know where these ‘enemy targets’ are?’ They aren’t even on the surface? And that’s not even talking about the many non-violent solutions one could take before the above.

Now in good faith, have I been reasonable above?

Thank you for your feedback, and here’s the answer to your two questions as best I can.

1) I was born into a Christian family but later in life accepted Islam, and in doing so, decided to take my morality of right and wrong from Islam. As it relates to the killing of non-combatants, then Islam is very strict about the rules of war. The following are protected individuals in Islam, even if they are from “the enemy”

a) Women

b) Children, both male and female

c) The elderly, both male and female

d) Monks, those who have dedicated themselves to their religion/worship and are therefore not engaged in any fighting

e) Any male who is literally not engaged in the fighting, like a farmer etc

f) It goes as far as to include combatants that disarm and ask for sanctuary, ESPECIALLY if they accept Islam (but it’s not a requirement)

g) There are a few other categories but I cannot remember right now the rest, but the above are the most.

These are very strict rules, as you can imagine being religiously stipulated and it’s not something small to take lightly. Allaah says in the Quraan

مِنۡ أَجۡلِ ذَ ٰ⁠لِكَ كَتَبۡنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِیۤ إِسۡرَ ٰ⁠ۤءِیلَ أَنَّهُۥ مَن قَتَلَ نَفۡسَۢا بِغَیۡرِ نَفۡسٍ أَوۡ فَسَادࣲ فِی ٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِیعࣰا وَمَنۡ أَحۡیَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَاۤ أَحۡیَا ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِیعࣰاۚ وَلَقَدۡ جَاۤءَتۡهُمۡ رُسُلُنَا بِٱلۡبَیِّنَـٰتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِیرࣰا مِّنۡهُم بَعۡدَ ذَ ٰ⁠لِكَ فِی ٱلۡأَرۡضِ لَمُسۡرِفُونَ﴿ ٣٢ ﴾

“On account of [his deed], We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person- unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land- it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind. Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Al-Māʾidah, Ayah 32

This is something Allaah informed us in the Quraan that He told the children of Israel not to do (and therefore Muslims also) but also told us, the Muslims, they they still disobeyed and killed wrongfully anyway, in the past.

So to conclude my answer, and apologies for the detail (but detail here is important) yes I agree, innocence is forbidden 🚫.

But Islam does have capital punishment, as you can see in the verse above. So if someone murdered someone deliberately, then the family of the one murdered can choose the death penalty, or take ‘blood money’ instead.

2) Jason’s question, taken in isolation, could be taken to be worded wrongly, as the phrase “stop at nothing” could be refined in a context. A bit like saying to one’s wife “I will do anything for you” which clearly didn’t literally mean he will do anything. BUT, the reason why the guy refused to answer and why Jason said what he said, is because the actions and clear numerous statements of Netanyahu et al has clarified in detail genocidal intent. So although one could argue that it was worded wrong, the context clarifies its correct intent.

I hope the above helps. Look forward to your feedback

That’s a shame. Hopefully it will get there somehow