Nostr Web Client

I have no idea what you mean by micro work... I also don't know what you mean that the service nodes provide is how miners get their rewards... It's not. Miners literally pay themselves... Nodes don't pay them or in any way make sure that they get paid. They just make sure the miners didn't pay themselves more than they are allowed to by rejecting any block where a miner tries to pay themselves more than they are owed.

eko 1y ago

Let's say two miners (A and B) find a block at the same time. One part of the network will stick to Block A, while the other part of the network sticks to block B (due to propagation difference).

The miner (or lets say longest chain) that can faster propagate through the network over the next blocks will win and thus get the reward. Not sure if we cab call it a race condition but definetely here the reward of miners depends on nodes.

Replying to

Dikaios1517

They do, but they only provide that service to each other, so all nodes equally benefit from other nodes and provide that benefit to other nodes. So again, there's not anything they should get paid for. There is no "work" involved in that. It's just relaying information around to their peers who also relay information to them.

eko 1y ago

By providing that service, miners get their reward - I cannot disagree more to describe this with 'no"work" involved'.

The only challenge I see, is that the additional work required to proof their micro work could be more than their actual "work" provided.

Replying to

Dikaios1517

Wait... Nodes provide "micro work" to the block? No. They don't. They contribute ZERO work to finding a block. Not even a little. No reward due to them whatsoever.

eko 1y ago

Never said they provide micro work to find a block.

The provide micro work to propagate the information about the longest chain along the network.

Replying to

Dikaios1517

Not unless I start using someone else's node, I don't, and then, yes, they could charge me a fee for its use if they so chose.

If my node is booted from the network, then I either need to find a way to get it reconnected, or I need to use someone else's, and only then do they have a legitimate reason to be paid for the service.

If my peers are booted from the network, my node will find new peers. And again, my node is providing exactly the same benefit to my peers as they are to me, so there is no reason any of us should pay the others.

eko 1y ago

I am not saying "(light) node pay (light) node each other" but miners distribute based on a proof of micro work a micro share of their block reward to nodes thatare legit - maybe randomly.

Replying to

Guy Swann

There is no POW, so its vulnerable to sybil. Plus like nostr:nprofile1qywhwumn8ghj7erfddskjmmnxy6nzdewdehhxarjxyhxxmmd9uq3samnwvaz7tmxd9k8getj9ehx7um5wgh8w6twv5hszythwden5te0dehhxarj9emkjmn99uq3kamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwvfexjemgw33x7mr59ehx2ap0qys8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnzwf5kw6r5vfhkcapwdejhgtmfde3x77qpr9mhxue69uhhwmm59e38y6t8dp6xymmvwshxuet59uqzpde8f55w86vrhaeqmd955y4rraw8aunzxgxstsj7eyzgntyev2xtz675kl said, you run it for *your* protection, which only protects the network by extension of everyone protecting themselves. By itself and without a bitcoiner using it defensively nodes don't have much value some minor caveats here).

This is why one person spinning up 10,000 nodes is meaningless.

eko 1y ago

True, no proof there - that is why I am asking for a criteria to identify them - to proof it.

Since work is being done. Not as much as is being done through mining but still it is work.

I am unable to follow on the singular "only for you" rhetoric here. Sure I do it for me but also for the network.

Replying to

Dikaios1517

Yes. Now, who benefits from those legit nodes? I benefit from my own, so no one should pay me to run it. Anyone using someone else's node may benefit from that node, and the operator may charge for its use or not charge. That's up to them.

eko 1y ago

You may benefit from them if your node and its peers are cut off from the network?

Replying to

Dikaios1517

It's not about the sheer number of nodes, though. 100 billion nodes that no one uses for actually transacting doesn't protect the network from anything.

eko 1y ago

"actually transacting" sounds misleading here.

As I wrote initially, it should be legit nodes of course. 1 million legit nodes are much more stable than 20K.

Replying to

Dikaios1517

Because, you don't run a Bitcoin node for anyone else; you run it for you. Your node does very little for anyone else, unless they are using your node to research mempool and blockchain data, or to broadcast transactions.

Sure, your node routes transaction information in your mempool to your peers, and it lets your peers know when it hears about a new valid block. But your peers do the exact same thing for you, so there is no reason either of you should pay the others.

Running a routing node for Lightning, however, is very different, and you CAN be paid for that. It's also not easy to run a profitable routing node, though.

eko 1y ago

nostr:nprofile1qqstwf6d9r37nqalwgxmfd9p9gclt3l0yc3jp5zuyhkfqjy6extz3jcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgcwaehxw309anxjmr5v4ezumn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcprdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucnjd9nksarzdak8gtnwv46z7273e59

It is perfectly clear to me how the network works and why Lightning Routing will be paid.

The amount of nodes in the network is a measure of distribution. The more nodes we have the more robust it is against attacks. I was thinking of rewarding that aspect. It should be also in the interest of miners or any other participant.

Replying to

eko