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JackTheMimic
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Hoch die anarchie. CTO at Sovreign.io

I got a nice place up in the mountains near a river for less than $150k about 2 years ago. And the government stays out of my business. But, I feel ya. Good weather gives good mood.

Coldcard Q is 240,000 I'd say these are reasonable around a Jade Plus price range.

A good thing? Inviting conflict instead of peace has been Israel's foreign policy since '67. Probably time to stop facilitating that.

SoCal? What are you one of those nuts with a sundae to sit on?! I can't imagine a state tax so high.

I personally draw the line at mass murder. This is just as bad as a song praising Truman (really any wartime U.S. president outside of the revolutionary era).

But of course you can feel any way you want about any group of people but, praising murderers, scumbag behavior.

I went back to Keet when Email failed to route my mail. So, very possible especially if it is torrent based.

Just a helpful tip because I see the "source?" Question in almost every one of this guy's notes. I didn't know the source until I searched for it.

I mean, is anyone going to use that? Everyone knows the custodial problem of gold at this point. Also, nations states would sooner annihilate the world than use gold in an honest way.

Yeah, but of course money protocols are unique to how ossification affects the users. If there are permutations to email it creates unique usecases and functions that can be adopted. If email breaks, encrypted messages, physical mail, telegraph and the like are also available. Money converges to one because if money breaks, we all go back to barter. Destroying specialization, and reintroducing the coincidence of wants problem.

I've said this repeatedly. We have a Reese's Cup problem in bitcoin "You got your cypherpunk in my economics. You got your Economist in my cryptography." Some people in the space don't have the right balance to know their product sucks.

Yeah, and nothing at all like what the french are seeing today. How could they have gotten it SO wrong. 🤔

The ETH comment is the end result I forsee when the spammers use the witness anyway when Nodes start pruning OP_RETURN. I don't know where I lied exactly but I take your word that I wasn't clear either.

A year and a half ago there was an initiative to fix the filters but that was pushed aside as "censorship" so, that's perhaps why we never solved the monkey sharing problem.

Regardless, I think we see each other's postion we just disagree on outcome which neither of us know.

I can agree that we are both using intense language here. Not discounting the in person(fantastic soap by the way)meeting. I am telling you I am not confused. But I am also saying you aren't confused. We have different moral outlooks.

To use an analogy: A girl walking on the beach finds 1000 starfish have beached themselves. She throws them 1 by 1 back into the ocean. Another person says "you can't save them all why waste your time? What does it matter?" And the girl says "It matters to that one."

I am the little girl.

You are the other person.

It's fine that you think my actions are futile, I do not.

Make stuff and sell it for bitcoin. Not fiat then bitcoin. Directly. This makes the Miners less likely to cater to the shitchoins trying to fill blocks with spam.

Firstly Ocean and DATUM are two distinct things, I do not use Ocean but I use DATUM. Secondly other miners don't "validate" so if you want to just be pithy and pedantic, I can too.

I'm not confused, you either misread or didn't understand.

As for the why, beyond the bulwark of property rights and I can do whatever I want, refusing to propagate spam forces it to got through other channels that are more fragile. Where as Shinobi seems to think spam centralization is bad, I see it as good because it has one avenue of propagation and if that method fails, no spam.

I never once argued about performance. This is a property rights issue. And compelled speech issue. I don't want to "say" to the network I am passing along a spammers message. The fact that the spammer found another way to "say" that message is irrelevant. But on my property, with my speech, I refuse or at the very least reserve the right to refuse.

A better analogy would be filtering out photobombers by cutting them out of your family vacation photos or cutting out graffiti that was put ontop of the mona lisa. From YOUR photos. It gives you the picture YOU want to see. If you want to see the graffiti and photobombers to get a "clearer" picture of what is happening YOU can by deactivating the filter. I PERSONALLY edit those annoyances out. Stop pretending to be Bitcoin King and know what's best for other People's computers.

There is no way (outside of using DATUM) to filter that spam in the witness. Period. So, all of what you said is conjecture. They are CHOOSING to use OP_RETURN, that is non-binding. Which given a toggle is my perogative. Also, as I said before no single node has an accurate view of pending transactions. So having a few less transactions in my mempool is no different now than it was before.

My goal as far as you are aware is to filter my mempool. Spam on valid blocks is an inevitability but their proliferation using my broadcast node is not.

"On-chain" is what the Miners and Nodes agree is on-chain. We will see what a less performant Ethereum gets you, but I don't think this concession will work out the way you hope it will.

Yeah, and neither does a self run node... Only well connected nodes would like Mempool.space or whatever. Your personal node never had the full picture and never will.

I know why you included them. They are just irrelevant to the PR. If I remove a color option on a desktop environment. TECHNICALLY websites all around the world will be affected. But in reality it is just the end user that can't render the color.

I don't think you understand the issue either. This is not about spam in valid blocks. Period. This is about spam in individual mempools.

Replying to Avatar Bill Cypher

Here is what I learned arguing with people on both sides of the op_return argument. Cunningham's Law in full effect for sure.

1. The Bitcoin blocksize limit is unaffected by the PR. A full archival node is going to grow hard drive storage at up to 4MB every 10 minutes, that number does not change.

2. That 4MB is with maxed out witness data. The base block limit is 1MB, also unchanged.

3. Op_return is base block data while most current arbitrary data schemes store in the larger witness data area.

4. The true limits were always only at the block total level. The total can be made up of any combination of sizes of the sub fields, this is unchanged. My initial assumption on this was backwards. I thought the block limit came from the collection of limits of sub types of data because of my background in networking where that is how the TCPIP packet limits are set. See my incorrect posts earlier where I got this wrong and got corrected.

5. Any "limit" on any particular field size that you set only affects your mempool. This means those limits affect what is in RAM on your node only, not drive space or bandwidth consumption.

6. Your node always validated blocks with any op_return that fits into the base block. This is true of core, libre, and knots. This is why the large op_returns during the dispute did not cause a chain fork even though knots had a limit of 80.

7. More bluntly, nothing changes about what blocks validate. The node runners still have full control over validation and they are not being asked to change validation rules.

8. Only what is carried in mempool will change and no hardware usage changes for nodes.

9. From a TX side, getting nodes to carry the larger op_returns in mempool means they don't have to pay miner accelerator markups. Removing the markup will make op_returns cheaper than the witness data schemes used by most current arbitrary data. This is the entire purpose of the change.

10. Changing op_return to be cheaper than witness data should get arbitrary data users to prioritize using op_return.

11. Witness data cannot be purged from a pruned node without losing economic transactions. Op_returns can be purged in a pruned node, though this may change if future L2s require op_return arbitrary data. That would only affect node runners who wanted to support that L2.

12. 11 means that after the change pruned nodes should have lower hard drive capacity requirements for the same amount of arbitrary data stored on chain.

13. Very slowly for the back of the class. It should be easier for people who don't want to store arbitrary data to not store arbitrary on their node hard drives after the change.

14. Not keeping large op_returns in mempool means you have an incomplete view of who you are bidding against when you set fees for your on chain transactions. Right now this is not a big deal because there aren't many large open_returns. Once there are more, particularly during arbitrary data rushes like the taproot wizards craze, you may wait many blocks after paying what you thought was a next block fee.

15. 14 is most important for lightning where timely automated transactions can be critical such as justice transactions.

16. Mempool has a user set size limit. It drops transactions based on fee. Only the highest fee TXs stay in mempool if mempool size exceeds your limit. This means that storing large op_returns in mempool does not increase RAM requirements for your node.

17. Satoshi stored arbitrary data in op_return not witness data.

So TLDR.

I support the change now. For people who don't want their node resources used for arbitrary data, this makes it easier for you while Knots actually makes it harder. I'll be staying on core and I will be upgrading.

That said, I still think core and the insiders who support this handled it like a bunch of asshats. Pathetic public relations and they need to do much better in the future if they want to be taken seriously. If one person doesn't get it they may be an idiot, if the entire class doesn't get it you are a shitty teacher. Stop condescending and work on your teaching skills.

Points 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17 are outside the scope of the discussion and for all intents and purposes, irrelevant.

5 & 8. This is the entire point of the debate. Also, it is a private property issue. I can, with my node, store whatever data I want (given the right software).

13. Incorrect. Not accepting transactions in the first place reduces the spam not pruning it later. (which you can still do if the transaction gets included in a block)

All of these other included tangential points are utilitarian nonsense. The "You can't save everyone so, why save anyone?" mentality. Filters don't work but remove them because they don't work... Nonsense. A non propagation of spam using a personal mempool policy allows you to vote what a miner sees FROM YOU. The fact that other people have a different opinion is irrelevant to what you do with your machine.

Okay, here's a metaphor for you, my mempool policy filters 84+byte OP_RETURN data carrier entries. I advocate for very large hash producers (and distributors) to utilize DATUM to filter spam. And think this "if they paid it's valid" nonsense is childish and anyone with that opinion severely damages their credibility as an intelligent reasoned expert.

"If they pay for the stamps they can send you as many letters with nonsense that they want"

What if I make it harder for those types of letter to be delivered to me?

BUT THEY PAID FOR THE STAMPS! YOU CAN'T STOP THEM FROM BEING DELIVERED!

This is a bad argument.

"Run a node" your node's policy is what tells the miners what transactions are to be added. Spam reduction is from a majority setting limits on data carrier fields.

You can never prevent all spam but you can make it difficult and expensive.

That's what protection means. A fence doesn't mean no trespassers. It means a reduction in trespassers who can't overcome the cost.

I didn't hear he wanted people to run pruned nodes, that's such a lazy response. I don't understand how he can be so great on cyber security and basically play dumb on this.

I absolutely have a selective mempool, I monitor it. To be clear, we are talking only about unconfirmed transactions. Nothing can be done about transaction validation without a standards change.

As for unlimited mempool (unconf txns) what do I care? It's your memory and storage.

The valid blocks is not the debate currently. That is the red herring being bandied about. This is about control options of your own mempool rules within your own machine.

There is no accuracy within mempools and never will be unless you think there should be a mempool authority. Some people have never heard of Disney and don't need to. Same thing goes for transactions that don't fit within YOUR computer's filter setting. Consensus (not ) is the overwhelming majority of rule sets creating a standard. If most set their OP_RETURN data carrier limit to 83 bytes, that's what the standards is.

I do not claim to make that decision for other people's computers. If Bitcoin stops being a network I can transact freely upon because the consensus is to allow spam then, so be it.

Censorship is inherent to every node. If not explicit, the hardware limitation itself censors transactions.

It feels like the conflation of censorship resistance and personal sovereignty is being done in bad faith.

Rational people understand that you don't have to accept someone insulting you in your home because that space is yours to do with as you wish. That limitation IS censorship.

It is not the same as censorship as way of permission. The network is resistant to centralization of permission, not that permission doesn't exist on an individual's node.