my point here is more that not everyone is going to be turned by the same use case at the same time. so, on top of what you said, we should adjust our expectations accordingly
I'd argue that it stems from the mind viruses we got from fiat thinking, that creates this expectation that something needs to be adopted by critical mass user base in a very short timeframe.
nostr grows with builders, building their idea. we don't know which use case is going to turn everyone. it might be cat memes, it might be freedom money. time will tell
Why Nostr is struggling…
There is too much of an overlap with X, not only in the feature sets among the primary applications, but more importantly, in the kind of audience that Nostr is catering to.
Sure..censorship resistance at the protocol level is a differentiator, but the to the average person, you may as well be talking gibberish. They don’t know wtf a protocol is in the first place - let alone why it matters for censorship resistance to happen at that level, or more importantly, WHY they should trust Nostr to deliver on that promise. “Bcoz nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m said so” is not an argument.
————
Bluesky is a case in point here.
It’s got a VERY similar feature set to X, claims to be open source / censorship resistant (similar narrative to Nostr), and is growing MUCH faster than Nostr, bc it has captured a key audience, ie; people with TDS and EDS (Elon Derangement Syndrome).
I’ve been on there a few times, and the content quality is enough to make you want to throw up….but at the very least, it’s working for that kind of content, and for the people who want it.
I don’t have a direct answer here..but I think it’s something to do with the over-emphasis on technicals.
nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 mentioned increasing the emphasis on design the other day. I agree this is a move in the right direction. We’re taking a very design-focused approach with nostr:npub15xd2mmjnh3caykh77djsv73e0zkrp42jp5mwerx8f4m6su40wdvss7t3l3 (we’ll have ALOT more to show in the next 6wks).
That being said, it’s not enough.
IMO, Nostr is technically mature enough for us to go out there and talk about it to more people, and build a narrative BEYOND the 500 of us that are talking to each other on here.
People like nostr:npub1l2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqutajft or nostr:npub1dergggklka99wwrs92yz8wdjs952h2ux2ha2ed598ngwu9w7a6fsh9xzpc can correct me if I am wrong here. Maybe there’s alot more to do technically.
But if I am right, I’d like to see more initiatives that are marketing oriented being supported by nostr:npub17xvf49kht23cddxgw92rvfktkd3vqvjgkgsdexh9847wl0927tqsrhc9as and nostr:npub10pensatlcfwktnvjjw2dtem38n6rvw8g6fv73h84cuacxn4c28eqyfn34f and other coalitions. Maybe we even need a council of Nostr businesses, who together pool some funds to help drive some marketing initiatives?
Whatever the case, we need to expand upon the Nostr narrative, make it more compelling and speak to more people about it.
At the very least, we have to conquer then Bitcoiners. If we can’t get the segment who are into freedom money onto the freedom of speech network, we’re DOA. That’s a first step.
I know nostr:npub1hz5alqscpp8yjrvgsdp2n4ygkl8slvstrgvmjca7e45w6644ew7sewtysa is working on a very cool initiative in relation to this. The Nostr Booth is IMO a great way to make Nostr more “real” for bitcoiners by having a physical presence at all the conferences.
I know nostr:npub1utx00neqgqln72j22kej3ux7803c2k986henvvha4thuwfkper4s7r50e8 + nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 are doing some Podcast outreach. That’s super important too. nostr:npub16vrkgd28wq6n0h77lqgu8h4fdu0eapxgyj0zqq6ngfvjf2vs3nuq5mp2va and crew are putting on Nostriga. Amazing. nostr:npub16c0nh3dnadzqpm76uctf5hqhe2lny344zsmpm6feee9p5rdxaa9q586nvr / nostr:npub12vkcxr0luzwp8e673v29eqjhrr7p9vqq8asav85swaepclllj09sylpugg are doing great things with nostr:npub1spdnfacgsd7lk0nlqkq443tkq4jx9z6c6ksvaquuewmw7d3qltpslcq6j7, etc on the content side. I’ve got some things up my sleeve personally which I will begin to do once nostr:npub15xd2mmjnh3caykh77djsv73e0zkrp42jp5mwerx8f4m6su40wdvss7t3l3 is in a position to represent a NEW kind of Nostr-product..
But we need MOAR..
And…we also need to find another angle that is NOT about censorship resistance. That’s clearly not working against X.
I don’t know the EXACT narrative or spin, but it has to be more “running towards” than “running from”.
More white pill, less black pill.
Anyway.
I will probably turn this into an article. I’ve been thinking more and more about “writing in public” as we build Satlantis, and sharing more about how we’re thinking about growing a “network product” on top of a “network protocol”.
If you think this was valuable, please repoast so more people can see and get involved in the discussion.
we need other stuff, just notes won't cut it
Unfortunately the democratic system as we know it does not reward that strategy
3 actually.
https://gitworkshop.dev/ by nostr:npub15qydau2hjma6ngxkl2cyar74wzyjshvl65za5k5rl69264ar2exs5cyejr
mine is way less ambitious, but check it out:
well put.
people are playing debates rather than having conversations and exchanging information.
I actually think there is a point to arguing. information exchange is invaluable, even if people don't ever come to admit it.
What I think is a problem is sometimes is that people assume that because they think they are right that others will change their minds if they articulate and assert it well enough, and then get mad because others seem unconvinced
In that case, as you said, might be better to just move on...
I consider myself anti-gun in the sense that I don't think having guns actually protects you from states, because the damage caused by states to its people is no longer correlated to their ability to bear arms against them.
the argument of the US 2nd amendment, however valid at some point in time, seems to me to have been completely nulled at this point.
IMHO, violence and armed conflicts are more a symptom of a failing system than a strategy through which to defend or advance any idea.
stop asking for permission or approval, just create the damn thing!!
THEN you present it and argue in favor of it.
I see this pattern emerging with people asking if their idea should not be integrated into #nostr.
if you don't think it is worthy building it without community consent, there is your answer!!
#grownostr #buildstr
I distrust government, but to see the discourse change is exciting.
I'm sure they are going to fuck it up though
we are so early.
as we spend time with these new technologies, we forget that not everybody is actively seeking information about it.
most people don't really understand how email works, just that it does. and his will be true for while still with Bitcoin and it's technologies.
that said, it is important to always explain patiently to people and encourage them to learn more.
things will get better
Muito obrigado pelas respostas, amigos.
Então, deixe-me dizer que compartilho do desgosto de vocês por empreendedorismo de palco.
Técnicas de neurolinguística para gerar reações afetivas fortes.
Temos grandes exemplos de casos fraudulentos que foram expostos. Talvez o mais emblemático seja a Bel Peace!
Tenho ojeriza a esse povo. Principalmente quando insistem em falar que fazem grandes números nos empreendimentos e quantas pessoas eles alcançam, tentando dar um fundo moral e caridoso ao resultado de seu empenho.
Uma das palestrantes falou sobre como ela faz para tirar pessoas do ponto de dividas até poderem investir. E falou dos obstáculos dela.
Outra falou como tira mais de 6 dígitos por mês na área de tatuagens.
Um casal falou sobre sua trajetória vendendo brownies até fazer também 6 dígitos em uma semana.
Este sujeito do qual mencionei, cujo produto é o curso para as pessoas lucrarem 6 dígitos em 7 dias é conhecido por falar mais dos sucessos do que dos fracassos.
Porém, nestes 3 dias, todos os que foram lá palestrar falaram de vídeos momentos de fracasso antes do sucesso.
Isso criou um apego emocional no público. Não em mim.
Eu paguei 100 reais para ver do que se trata tudo isso.
Como eu mencionei antes, foram pessoas falando de estratégias, planos de negócio, produção de conteúdo e afins.
Evidentemente que houve o aspecto emocional e eu já esperava por isso.
Havia mais de 12 mil pessoas assistindo. Todos os palestrantes tinham a agradecer pelo programa que estava sendo oferecido (um curso).
Eu só queria saber da parte de planos a serem executados.
E eu tive vontade de encontrar pessoalmente as pessoas que estavam lá na mesma condição que eu.
Isto posto, o que eu queria ver no Nostr é um ecossistema que permita isso que vou mostrar nas imagens incorporadas abaixo:
Isto posto, nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z, eu não vejo a menor possibilidade de construir um sistema desse aqui com o que temos em mãos.
Por outro lado, também não vejo empreendedores aqui tentando formar outros empreendedores para este fim.
É a isto que me refiro.
Eu gosto muito daqui. Do Nostr, das pessoas e suas idéias. Mas não vejo eventos nos quais possamos trazer análises de empreendedorismo e formar mais pessoas capazes de arriscar e se entregar aqui.
O nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 tem razão quando diz que isso tudo parece loteria. Parece, mas não é. Só que, por outro lado, o discurso nesses eventos é para fazer as pessoas irem arriscando tudo até além de suas seguranças mais básicas.
O curso custa 50 mil reais. Muitas pessoas tiveram perdas mais de uma vez antes do sucesso.
Isso foi mostrado em diversos momentos.
O que eu estou apontando é que precisamos dos empreendedores que ajudem de verdade a quem queira usar as ferramentas do Nostr para construir um empreendimento.
E não vejo tanto a preparação quanto a execução de movimentar um empreendimento usando as ferramentas que o ecossistema do Nostr tem agora.
Eu espero que isso mude.
No mundo fiat tem mais coach quantico querendo vender dicas de sucesso do que empreendimentos honestos que atendem a demandas reais de usuários
Desfazer a centralização de capitalização de tráfego de midia digital e redes sociais significa que esses mecanismos nao podem mais ser explorados para fomentar tráfego para um negócio e inflar o lançamento de um empreendimento.
Nós estamos observando diversos novos negócios e empreendimentos, orientatos a lucro ou nao, surgindo no ecossistema nostr, mas o próprio protocolo ainda está num período de maturação, comentei isso recentemente num outro post: https://primal.net/e/note10edcl5wk2ax0h07zzjlvuxrjz2cs9mazdwvsjcq5yvqcxqea5z2qww22wa
Acho que é útil pensar em como funcionam os ciclos de vida dos processos centralizados e descentralizados.
Um processo centralizado tem uma meta/demanda definida por um planejador centralizado (stakeholders). Esse objetivo ajuda os desenvolvedores a coordenar esforços para uma gama limitada de casos de uso. Então, soluções para esses casos de uso são criadas. E repita. é muito direto e ágil (haha), mas essa demanda pode estar superestimada, pois o planejador central pode estar errado, ser incompetente ou desonesto.
Os processos descentralizados têm um ciclo de vida de desenvolvimento mais “orgânico”. Os desenvolvedores criam com seu próprio caso de uso em mente. Quando um caso de uso se tornar popular (ou seja, quando há demanda), a adoção pela comunidade ajudará a orientar o desenvolvimento dessas soluções. Isto é mais lento e não existe uma linha de chegada clara, uma vez que a procura evolui com o tempo. Algumas soluções podem ser abandonadas ao longo do caminho. As soluções sobreviventes serão as que realmente agregarem mais valor, pois há uma demanda contínua.
há um caos natural na forma como os processos descentralizados funcionam e os prazos diferem dos centralizados.
As pessoas só podem desenvolver as ideias nas quais veem valor. Só o tempo dirá quem está certo ou errado.
Not sure these count as non-social
GitHubstr
StackOverflowstr
Kickstartstr
I'm working on bridging git with nostr
https://swarmstr.com/ has the stackoverflow look and feel on the way, kinda
https://geyser.fund/ has the Kickstarter thing working
https://gitworkshop.dev/ and some other projects are trying to create a GitHub like experience
So I'm super pumped to see what will be available in the next years
"don't trust, verify" exists for that reason.
there will be honest actors creating amazing utilities that will make life easier and all together better.
there will also be scammers and incompetent actors with empty promises.
we must differentiate ourselves from fiat grifters by clearly stating what might be obvious to some of us.
and then back. the important questions
it's a process people.
we are building foundations, not just services
keep building
I think it is helpful to think of how centralized and decentralized processes life-cycles work.
A centralized process has a goal/demand defined by centralized planning (stakeholders). This goal helps the builders coordinate effort towards a limited array of use cases. Then, solutions for those use cases are engineered into existence. And repeat. It is very straight forward, and agile (haha), but that demand might be overestimated, as central planner might be wrong, incompetent or dishonest.
Decentralized processes have a more "organic" development life-cycle. Builders build with their own use case in mind. Once a use case becomes popular (ie., there is demand), community adoption will help steer development of these solutions. This is slower, and there is no clear finish line, as demand evolves with time. Some solutions might be abandoned along the way. Surviving solutions will be the ones that actually provide the most value, as there is continuous demand.
there is a natural chaos in the way decentralized processes work, and time frames differ from centralized ones.
The fact that this https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips is the current reference for how nostr is supposed to work is a coincidence. There is no guarantee that this will still be true in 5 years.
People can only build ideas they see value in. Only time will tell who is right or wrong what works and what doesn't.
I would advise people to be wary of making or blieveling in "this is how things should be" arguments when it comes to the development of decentralized projects, as such arguments are filled with bias and projection. in an organic decentralized process, you can only look back and say what has worked best so far. there is no telling how things should be. any predictions are only that, and have no bearing on reality.
also.. stop asking for permission... go out there and do it
Hey nostr:npub15xd2mmjnh3caykh77djsv73e0zkrp42jp5mwerx8f4m6su40wdvss7t3l3 nostr:npub1w5eah5vxgkkeadysuuqcu0pum37fj2pm68fgsq64dvw58wnwjh0qj74084 nostr:npub1dtgg8yk3h23ldlm6jsy79tz723p4sun9mz62tqwxqe7c363szkzqm8up6m
Are you guys aware of https://wanderlog.com/
A friend showed me this today. It looks pretty impressive, more utility than display. Something to consider for the roadmap?