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I think the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the idea of entropy is one of the most confused and misunderstood ideas in physics, and the fact that we have accepted this handwaving argument for so long is shameful.

And I'm a credentialed computer scientist. Entropy has an informational meaning. I'm well aware of Claude Shannon's work. But let's go back to physics for a second.

Entropy is a measure of disorder. But what is disorder? What is order? There is no such thing. It is a personal preference. I like my pot on top of my stove, but my girlfriend likes it in the cupboard. Who is right? Which state is more disordered? There is no objective answer.

If there is no objective definition of which states are ordered and which are not ordered, then there is no true entropy.

All we actually have is the law of large numbers. If you choose to concieve of a small set of states among the nearly infinite possible states, then the odds that something will move from one of those infinite states into your small set is astronomically low, compared to things moving in the other direction. But as the lord Buddha says, empty your mind. Dont concieve of a small set of states. Where did the entropy go? You created it! The entropy was all in your head.

to be decided 1y ago

> Entropy is a measure of disorder. But what is disorder? What is order? There is no such thing. It is a personal preference.

I guess you're familiar with the following example: One container with two different gaseous substances in it, both 99,99 % pure, separated by a barrier. You open/remove the barrier and the gases will mix by diffusion.

By your personal definition of the word "disorder", these two situations (before and after opening the barrier) cannot be distinguished by the measure of disorder?

If you take two containers, one with blue lego parts, one with red lego parts and you pour both into a third container and shake it for a minute. It would align with your understanding of "disorder" to say: "The mixture of both blue and red has the exact same measure of disorder as when both colors were separate."?

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Discussion

Mike Dilger ☑️ 1y ago

I'm saying that disorder is defined by which states you feel are ordered. If you feel that having all one gas on one side and all another gas on the other is "ordered" then yes removing the barrier increases disorder. My point is that you had to choose a small set of possibilities and call it "ordered" which makes the notion of entropy partially subjective.

Viktor Vsk 1y ago

“A small set of possibilities” in that case is when you mix 2 lego boxes each with its own orders, mix it for a minute and get 2 layers one completely red and other one completely blue - thats what a small set of possibilities mean in this case

Otherwise probability is always 50/50 either yes or not