From: pam<-DerekRoss at 10/12 11:37
> when you refer to terrorist, are you referring to the Hamas, both the Hamas and the Fatah, or in general the people of Palestine?
Hamas. And to the north Hezbollah.
> 2 popular groups in Palestine - Fatah (West Bank) and Hamas (Giza). Fatah has been the moderate one, pushed for the Oslo accord - but as with a lot of leaders, has its large of share of corruption that people are stressed with. They want to draw the borders and have come to an agreement with Israel - but Hamas has always intervened.
Fatah has been less violent lately; but they still pay the families of terrorists and name streets after them, so I'm not so sure about how "moderate" they are.
> Groups like Hamas and others alike - Hezbullah, RUF, Charles Taylor, jihads, talibans - also some in syria, egypt, turkey - were formed in that late 80's / 90's period.
The groups aren't what matter so much as the ideology -- which goes back to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and his alliance with Hitler. The enmity itself is biblical, going back 3,000 years or more.
>
> I do not know enough about these groups and I do want to read a bit more on this when i have the time. I also want to read a bit more on Nakba in 1948 , the Arab-Israel war and the creation of Israel. I also need to do a cross reference on the history of Israel, as biblically it has existed over a thousand years before Jesus died - it was there from Abraham's time I think.
(Very brief biblical history) The _land_ of Israel was given to the _people_ of Israel as "the promised land" about 3,200 years ago. Abraham lived ~800 years before that. Abraham's grandson was Jacob, whose name was later changed to Israel. The people of Israel are his descendants. Jacob took his family to Egypt where they stayed for several centuries and multiplied. The Egyptians enslaved them and Moses rescued them and led them to Canaan, the promised land, what we now call Israel.
Incidentally, Jacob's uncle was Ishmael, who also founded a nation. God told Abraham that there would always be enmity between his sons. It is a common belief that the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael.
Shortly after the death of Jesus, the Romans decided they'd had enough of the unruly jews, and dispersed them all over Europe, destroying Jerusalem, the temple and the whole place. The jews did not start to return in earnest until the late 1800s, when they started to build settlements. At the time the area was pretty deserted. Mark Twain said it was desolate and devoid of inhabitants.
That began to change as the Jews started to move in. Arabs joined them. And the two populations grew together throughout the mid 20th century. They didn't much care for each other. In the end, after WWII, the brand new UN declared a two state solution. Israel accepted and formed a state. The five surrounding Arab states immediately declared war and invaded. Israel drove them back and would not let the Arabs who had left in fear return to their homes. Their descendants are the Palestinians.
Of course it's a lot more complicated than that, but that's the rough picture.
> When it comes to university students though, even from the beatnik/hippies era, they have been a strong force of anti war - do they have a different stance ?
Apparently they don't like war unless it is war against Israel. It's hard for me to understand their rationale. I don't think it is a rationale. I think it's just brainwashed nonsense.
CC: #[4]
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