What if there's a second best?
Discussion
Lol no... Monero is useless.
If you have no use for this currency then it wouldn't make much sense holding any of it. However, some people do use monero. At the end of the day, everything is just a foreign exchange. paper money for Bitcoin, Bitcoin for Monero. No different to swiping my CC when travelling, paying in EUR while the merchant receives USD, GBP or any other currency.
30k-40k total volume... There is no privacy if someone wants to link you to tx in it. Especially if you're moving in and out, which you have to do to maintain your purchasing power. Best just use Bitcoin pseudonymously...
is that chart onchain only ?
Yes, only on chain. So not including lightning or eCash.
Or liquid for that matter. Which is a different Blockchain but all tx on liquid would not exist unless Bitcoin existed plus it's just as private as Monero and requires less trust in the token and hold the same purchase power as BTC... nostr:nprofile1qqsfy229w70e8lgtxavlz9t78k06yrel6fxyhreteafqet8kfxhhwmg2c6av2 It also has covenants and shitcoinz on top. Which is good for tokenized tradfi and integrating Bitcoin with our current financial landscape.
It's not "just as private as Monero"
Liquid doesn't hide sender or receiver.
You bring up Moneros daily transaction charts being 30-40k then fail to mention Liquid has like 3 transactions a day lmao
Are you you intentionally lying or just ignorant?
It doesn't reveal sender reciever for confidential transactions. And yes volume is bigger on Monero but it still has degrading purchase power. You can move into liquid and hold there for a reliable amount of time without losing purchase power and move out much later to preserve privacy. It will overtake Monero volume in time when you guys figure that out or if Bitcoin ever has more privacy at the base layer and I'm not so sure it should.
No it doesn't. Confidential transactions only apply to hiding amounts not sender/reciever. It says this on their own website.
"The addresses of senders and receivers further remain visible as well and can be retraced like on the Bitcoin blockchain"
What does price have to do with your original point?
You tried using Moneros transaction count as a metric for privacy, but then suggest using Liquid as an alternative which has a microscopic tx count - even compared to Monero
I really don't hope for you that Bitcoin will become too much private, because you will say goodbye to WallStreet and Governments trillions, you will be judged as the bad guy like Monero is today and your "purchasing power" will magically vanish.
You're on a roll today with your innacurate statements.
Liquid is much better than BTC L1 but addresses exist and are linked. Only amounts are hidden.
In Monero there are no addresses onchain and all transaction amounts are also hidden.
So, Monero has much better privacy.
Interesting you try to go the Liquid route after your previous comment in another comment chain under this same post, where you try to discredit Monero because it has much lower tx throughput than Bitcoin.
Well, guess what. Liquid has substantially less txs than Monero too.
At this point I'm beginning to think you're just another zealot fanboy and you are not truly interested in the truth, only in confirming what you already believe in.
Perhaps the fact that this still surprises me is the real surprise here.
Liquid is a fucking ghost town
so no. it is not "just as private as Monero"
even if it DID protect sender and receiver.
which is doesn't.
so just admit already you don't need strong privacy yourself,
haven't researched how to have strong privacy online
and are just talking through your hat because you think nobody should use anything else than your favorite chain
Honestly, I don't really understand the purpose of Liquid. I've never used it, but it looks like the same thing as Lightning, but without the userbase. Am I missing something?
its a permissioned sidechain that never really found a usecase.
It seems to basically exist for people that don't know any better to say "but you can do it on liquid"
Sounds kinda dumb. Any idea why some wallets are still supporting it?
liquid "just werks" because it's a blockchain and it doesn't use payment channel technology at all. aqua wallet "just werks" in that they glued a liquid wallet to a lightning bridge. something like liquid but better will hopefully come along. they can skip the bullshit and just build a permissionless bitcoin sidechain or rollup. people would use that because it wouldn't have the routing or liquidity problems that lightning has.
Is there any meaningful difference in functionality between Liquid and Lightning? Or is Liquid basically GoBots to Lightning's Transformers?
in contrast to LN its an actual blockchain with 1min blocks
you swap your BTC in for L-BTC and the the advantages of that shitcoin
and can (theoretically) swap out whenever you like
but really it requires the Liquid Federations approval to get your BTC back
Did they have a specific use case in mind when they developed it? With Lightning, it's clear the intent was to facilitate fast, small-value Bitcoin transactions to make using Bitcoin as a functional currency easier and quicker. I'm just curious if there was some vision behind the design.
I use Bitcoin on chain pseudonomously when I need privacy. Still working for Satoshi.
see, you change the subject disingenuously because you can't talk about specifics intelligently.
I didn't change any subjects... But okay
on all these threads you change the subject whenever someone refutes you bro
like when i say
"Liquid is a ghost town and therefore cannot offer good privacy guarantees "
and you say
"i use onchain Bitcoin privately all the time"
it is a non sequitur fallacy.
ie, responding to something other than what was stated.
otherwise called "changing the subject".
Hanzan, this guy isn't worth your time. What are the odds he didn't even use Whirlpool when it was available?
I dont have any ideas I'm going to convince any if these characters
but i do feel its never a mistake to put accurate information out there.
if only for the lurkers who are maybe not informed
Nonsense. How would "they" do that?
The txs aren't even linked to an IP, because of dandelion. On top of that you can use a vpn and/or tor and/or nym.
There are no addresses onchain.
So.. how exactly do you propose this magic you speak of to happen?
Idk ask chainalysis
https://cointelegraph.com/news/chainalysis-leak-monero-traceability
https://protos.com/no-moneros-privacy-didnt-suddenly-break-in-this-viral-video/
If you don't understand the technical details, please refrain from spreading FUD.
Thank you.
The fact that it loses purchase power over time isn't FUD. It's fact.
That's just disingenuous of you.
What does Chainalysis have to do with loss of purchasing power? Nothing. And you know it.
Monero privacy hasn't been broken. Don't FUD.
The two are not correlated and I never said they were. It does lose purchasing power though...
30k-40k total volume... There is no privacy if someone wants to link you to tx in it. Especially if you're moving in and out, which you have to do to maintain your purchasing power. Best just use Bitcoin pseudonymously...
---
That is what YOU wrote on the post that begun our entire exchange.
I challenged you to back your assertion regarding there being no privacy in Monero.
You replied with a thouroughly debunked Chainanalysis link.
I sent you two links that explain clearly why it's nonsense, what they were doing, that everyone knew they were doing it years ahead, and that it doesn't compromise anyone's privacy.
In reply to that, you said that Monero loses purchasing power, a complete non sequitur.
At this point you should have admitted you were wrong, but instead you keep derailing the conversation.
Yeah this bs ends after fcmp++
"Monero transactions are traceable back to 2021"
What a bullshit, is cointelegraph owned by CIA ? ^^
At least they have an IP, and so ? Not the sending address, not the amount, not the receiver, deal with that chainanalysis 🖕
Run your own node or go through Tor (which is automatic in Feather)
All their money is useless against a bunch of freedom geek, enjoy 😄
Did you watch that video? I did. It does not show what you think it shows.
Best just use Monero anonymously
There are different use cases. I don't think BTC is in the "electronic cash" game at all to begin with. Just like XMR is not in the store of value game.
Exactly.
then Bitcoin isn't money
I've long concluded that's a nominalist debate that does not interest me in the least and cannot change my reasons for buying and holding BTC, or for being of the opinion that there probably may be some use cases for other cryptos that BTC doesn't cover as well.
Fair enough
I don't find it particularly interesting either
But I do think it's true that if it's not money then it's likely just an Institutional investment mechanism for fiat speculators
There is no point having a semantic debate about what is money. Bitcoin is a database of limited edition numbers, that's the closest 'objective' description I have come up with.
It's been obvious for anyone with two brain cells that there is a second best. But the SaylorMoon fanboys like their slogans, easier than spending energy and time thinking things through.