AFAIK, Islam prescribes leadership by religious authorities, basically a form of theocracy.
Disclaimer: I'm no expert on Islam, so feel free to fact check me.
Discussion
I will have to dig into it a bit, no expert either.
Interestingly, the christian bible talked originally about God taking a half (side) of Adam and making Eva to his (equal) partner. But somehow it got co-opted with translations into "the rib", subordinating the position of a woman to the man henceforth.
All these are interesting things to learn, but also a reason why I don't accept religious leaders of any kind.
A whole another topic is how an individual person lives and what moral guidance does he stick to, regardless of their religious scripts.
And so I'm not ready to condemn a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew -- as long as they're not following their "torahs" literally in trying to subordinate every living human to their needs, or keeping women as slaves etc. If they do, I want nothing with such people.
I don't want to condemn any individual for his religion either - simply because of the fact that one is usually born into a particular religious environment and has limited possibilities to get himself rid of it.
But I do believe that the theologies are very different, Christianity, being mostly a spiritual teaching, gives you a lot of leeway in other areas of your life. Islam seems to be pretty strict and has a lot to say regarding economics, politics and personal life.
Yeah it does. Similar to the system of Torah and Rabbis who seem to be supreme guides for every fart trying to get out of its pants. But I'm happy to learn if there's anyone more educated on this.
I don't see it there. To my knowledge, Jesus was a hippie preaching love and tolerance. But again - I'm no expert so it's possible that something insidious is lurking behind the scenes.
And I know even less about Judaism, so I can just use my heuristics and say that Israel seems to be a pretty chill democracy, unlike vast majority of countries in the region.
Israel seems pretty chill? So genocide is chill to you? Meanwhile the entire gulf region is the safest region on earth?
This conversation is crazy 🤪
But one thing you said that I totally agree with, you DONT know much about the topic. Not Christianity, Judaism and definitely not about Islam.
Are you accusing Israel of genocide? Are you aware that the population of Gaza has tripled in just last 30 years? That would be the lousiest genocide in history. :D
Do you know who is attempting genocide? The “from the river to the sea” people. You obviously don’t understand what the Palestinian chief slogan means, so I invite you to look at the map. (On second look, you are a Muslim, so you are obviously just biased.)
So yes, I’m constantly amazed, how chill and humane Israelis are towards the people, who are trying to eradicate them (as expressed by electing Hamas) for decades, if not centuries.
Entire gulf region the safest on earth? Go visit Yemen, lol! The countries you are referring to (SA, UAE) are strict autocracies. So this is pretty bad argument – the people kept in line by strict laws and oil money.
I would reply to your ridiculous response, but you are clearly arguing in bad faith, so pointless. Have a nice day.
That's what I thought. 😉
What a dupe.....
Man, go read some history from a non-biased non-western source. Yeah, sure accuse the Muslims of bias, but ignore your own western biases. Not our problem, as Arabs, that some British foreign minister promised Jewish people our lands, and not our problem Europeans imposed European Jews on us, and surely it is our absolute right to defend our lands.
Yes, we were at a weak spot. But that's the nature of civilization. Having said that, doesn't give the West the right to impose a colonialist project on us.
Bible, Torah, or Quran... None of these has anything to do with rights to the land. The right to the land belongs to those who live in it. And in 1917, when Balfour gave is wicked declaration, only 3% of the population were jews; Arab jews mostly at that.
To be sure, the relegiosity of the claim to the land seem to be unique to the Old Testament and maybe the New Testament; I haven't read them fully. The Quran doesn't say anything about Palestine belonging to anyone in particular. It says however that the owners of the land have the right to defend; in coherence to UN rules and much-touted Rules Based Order.
Now, answer me this, why on earth do Israelis have "the right to defend themselves" as an occupier, a century long aggressor, but the occupied people do not share the same right even though, in reality, they are the ones actually defending themselves?
Here is a good start: read the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe, an Israeli who taught at the Hebrew University (if I'm not mistaken).
/rant
A right to land can only belong to an individual and could be gained only via trade or homesteading. Israelis are not occupiers, they bought the land and paid for it. Regarding "colonialism", I can point you here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35eEljsSQfc
Trade? What trade? Go read the book I referred you to.
Homesteading? Where? After Israelis kicked out most of the Palestinians? History doesn't start with the white man, you know. Those people were there for millenia, and no European jews belong to Europe, regardless of what you say about the Torah.
Beyond this point, and after reading the cascade of misconceptions you have about Muslims and Palestine, I should stop arguing.
I'll watch your video for laughs.. Maybe I'm a lost cause to you as you are to me. ✌🏼
Thanks for the venting space, have a good day.
Yeah, the Jews bought the land in Israel fair and square. Meanwhile they were exterminated everywhere Islam achieved majority. That's all that matters.
You communicate in the same dishonest and aggressive way I see all Muslims do. You try to convince me with false arguments while calling me a dupe and disregarding any counterarguments as "for laughs".
Meanwhile I have no horse in this race. (I'm not Jewish.) I'm only interested in facts and logic. And once again you've convinced me that Israelis are the victims of unjustified hatred and oppression.
Yeah yeah yeah.. You expect a non-aggressive approach when you bring your lies and colonialist mentality here, expect nothing less.
Good day..
Why would I lie? Like I said, I have no horse in this race - unlike you. I've only responded with what I consider to be verified facts.
What colonialist mentality? My country of birth never colonized anyone - unlike Muslim regimes, which colonized all of middle east and north Africa.
Yeah, bad faith allover..
Again, if you want truth go read the book I referred to, expose yourself to a new perspective.
FYI, nothing you said above is something I never heard before. I heard it all before, and I reject it all. Maybe there are kernels of truths here and there, but it's absolutely myopic it doesn't show anything but one perspective; the Western perspective. It has nothing to do with ours. So, if your truthful to your claim that you have no horse in this race, expose yourself other people's perspectives.
What bad faith? Where?
Anyway, I've read quite enough about the topic already, considering it's not affecting me personally. In my experience truth is usually simple. It's lies that need to be complicated. So I'm not gonna read a whole book about this. If you can present these allegedly game-changing facts in a short paragraph or video I would be happy to consider them.
I explained it, you adopt a clearly Western perspective, which is bad faith under the claim of neutrality.
I'll find you a video for sure, as this cannot be put succinctly in one paragraph. Or maybe DYOR 😅.
It's not a western perspective, it's facts. But sure, I'll wait for your video.
Honestly, it is a Western perspective because only the West and their lackies accept them as facts. There is a totally different version of what happened and why it's happening elsewhere in the world. That's precisely why you got this reaction from me, and will probably continue to get this reaction from this who dont adhere to Western version of the story.
I picked this video not because it's comprehensive, but more because Ilan Pappe is an Israeli history professor and he is telling facts that he researched in Israeli archives. It only tells part of the story, but reality is the struggle started much earlier than 1948. Enjoy:
https://youtu.be/ldIfup1F8D4?feature=shared
If you wish to know more about it from a different perspective, please let me know. And finally, I apologize for the aggressive response.
You'll find your precious logic once you drop the pretenses and biases.