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If Stalin and Mao used Marx to excuse their authoritarianism then he's still implicated. Not only that, Marx's character and his family connections are highly suspicious.

I am sad for you if you grew up in eastern europe and your elders didn't warn you about what the dangers of Marx's hogwash were.

ᴄʏʙᴇʀɢᴜʏ 👽 2y ago 💬 5

I had to learn Marx (and Engels!), but Marx's communism idea was an utopia, comparing to Stalin's and Lenin's (!) misimpretation. Marx didn't want that type of totalitarian regime as Lenin did. Even Lenim warned the communist party about Stalin's agressive style. So Lenin didn't want Stalin to be the leader the communist party after him.

Believe me, I've learned enough about this regime and I lived during the communism. Or as they called "socialism". Marx and Engels used the communism and socialism as a sinonym. Lenin distinguished this two words. But more words about this topic is TL;DR.

So I don't want to "defend" Marx, but just to know Lenin was the biggest terrorist. More people were killed on his orders that Stalin did. Marx and Engels were beginners comparing Lenin and Stalin.

The GULAG was an abbreviation of internment camps, "invented" by Lenin. See Solzhenichin's thick books about the GULAG.

Btw: don't know the exact spellimg of Solzhenicin in English, we write his name differently (moreover the Russian's with cyrillic letters...)

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BankSith 2y ago

Thanks Cyberguy for the insights. However I only care about the results. Mein Kampf from some mediocre painting artist from Austria also left some room for interpretation, however any form of socialism is cancer, be it brown or red. It just does not matter for me.

Loki 2y ago 💬 2

There is a lot of people who like to apologise for marx's "accidental" involvement in the worst atrocities in history. It always shocks me when they are ones who were forcibly trained to memorise it and then their whole society abandoned everything after the economics proved unsustainable.

If you dig into the history a bit further, you find that actually, Engels was something like a Handler, and Marx was just a charming, intelligent rhetoric expert. He is so famous because he made all the socialism tenets seem reasonable.

BankSith 2y ago

Most importantly Marx was a freeloader who depended on Engels money (Engels was an Entrepreneur). Marx actually was living his vision. Living from opm. Other people’s money.

ᴄʏʙᴇʀɢᴜʏ 👽 2y ago

Yes it's true. But if I were Engels I would never financed that kind of idea I disagreed with. On the other hand we always was taught at the school as "Marx and Engels" not just Marx. This was the "canon". And the authors of "Communist Manifesto" were Marx and Engels not just Marx.

Btw: nowadays Marx is a topic again, especially in the scientific area, regarding his "Das Capital". Imho it is similar to the world economical collapse in 2008, when John Maynard Keynes' theory was brought up again in contrast to Milton Friedman's neoliberal theory.

ᴄʏʙᴇʀɢᴜʏ 👽 2y ago

In this point of view is true. But do not forget that this painter himself "realized" what he described in Mein Kampf. From the beginning to the end, until fall.

In contrast Marx died in 1883 and the "Great Socialist Revolution" was in 1917. The previous "try" was at 1905. So Marx and Engelsnever had any opportunity to "realize" that it is at the "Communist Manifesto".

And do not forget Rockefeller, who financed Lenin's idea and revolutiony aspirations (even Rockefeller financed Lenin in person too, he gave him a Rolls-Royce). The conclusion is that the money drives the world, as Rockefeller financed and in this way he indirectly supported the birth of the Sovietunion. Marx's and Engels' idea without Lenin's misinterpretation and (!) Rockefeller's money could never have existed and "perfectuated".

Loki 2y ago

I can go with that but I have seen some things that I think you may not be aware of that suggest that the tentacles of the blue and yellow family were involved.

I am no communist, but I get what people liked about Marx's ideas. I am no nazi, but I get how his words moved so many people.

It was actually part of how I got so interested in The Apocalypse of Yajnavalkya - that I had been pre-loaded by some vague reference to some campaign to attack a documentary artist as relates to his work on Atlantis, by a weak and crappy point that the Nazis were also investigating Atlantis.

The people of Atlantis were not the Aryans. But the resemblance is there. The emerging archeological evidence suggests that the oldest bones of WHITE people was in Morocco. Is this in any way really connected with Hitler and National Socialism?

I doubt it.

But read the Book of Enoch. The unmistakable references to people with pale white skin and red hair in it are there. This book was known to be familiar to the contemporaries of the 12 Apostles, as can be amply discovered if you read Enoch.

I could go on and on about this and I have barely scratched the surface in what I have learned but I'm convinced also.

But I do think there is some slimy things about Marx that you are not aware of. Even if they didn't achieve very much in their own time, that may not be because they were not favoured, but rather, that the time had to pass to inculcate people with the receptivity needed to continue to progress things until you reach the events of 1913 (the federal reserve) and 1917 (the bolshevik revolution).

There was more than a few things involved. The year 1865 is stuck in my mind, as is 1894. I may have those out by one or so, but both years were very important and as you know, the earlier one was contemporary to Marx.

I was raised Seventh Day Adventist, and for that cult, 1844 was also another year of importance. My uncle converted to Mormonism and the mormons, SDA and JW are also connected christian groups tied to early stages of the events that unfolded.

All of it is connected, but it is hard to find the strings when you depend entirely on hard documents. The spirit of it is clear, however, or the lack of spirit, maybe more accurate.

ᴄʏʙᴇʀɢᴜʏ 👽 2y ago

Yes, a given chain of events leads to a given historical situation, this cannot be disputed. But this is always the case at every critical moment.

But as I wrote earlier I don't want to defend Marx. His theory concluded to that horrible regime in which I was forced to live.

The only thing I originally said that the GULAG was not Marx's idea and can not derived directly from it. Marx's communist society was an idea about a society without classes. But without classes nobody has any power over others therefore there is no possibility to raise interning camps. And as it follows from the idea of "classless" society - the commune. The name communism also came from the commune. In this type of society hierarchy ceases so such society turns to anarchy. This is a complete impossibility.

Lenin and Stalin did not do this, even they definitely did not want to do this. They wanted power over other people. This led amongst other things to the GULAG.

And regarding the topic of Enoch, who was the only one prophet who met God personally, I read about him and read his apochrical book.(Even one one of the companies I own a stake in has the name Enoch too after him).

But I think these topics are getting far from the original topic.

Loki 2y ago

Solzhenitsyn. (I had to check that, it's terrible phoneticisation). I know several slavic languages to a usable degree and I know all the mess between them. It's been quite funny landing in portuguese territory because they use so many phonetics in common with the serbs, most especially.

The latinisation of foreign languages into english is a total shitstorm of bullshit. The amount of times B/V, P/B, C/Ts, and so many other things get muddled is incredible. Like, how in the FUCK did "Beijing" get mangled into "Peking" exactly? Wade-Giles don't voice their Ps? And unvoice their DJs (to kh)???

It's my opinion that if you were to point at one european language and settle on using its phonetics to express the phonemes of other languages, Russian is the most universal. Some of the characters have to be swapped around from what you expect but basically, there is more european phonemes in russian script than any single other european language.

It made me very sad that the western yugoslavians, in particular, have been abandoning cyrillic.

If I was designing a single alphabet for europe, to cover all of the nuances, it would be russian with the double consonant letters of serbian, the ones for Dj and the short "ty" sound that westerners usually misread as "ch".

Out of all of europe, the Bulgarians are the closest to accurately phoneticising foreign languages, except for their funny habits of germanising a few things like W. Visky, Vinni puh... this is also a russian habit.

I have this overwhelming feeling like somewhere along the way, a whole culture learned to speak by misreading the phonetics of another culture. B/V are a great example. Now I am exposed constantly to portuguese, I see so many times words that make more sense with B where they write the V. Moebel, the german word for furniture, is Moveis. Everywhere the portuguese put 'eis' it's "el" or "al" eg Animais. Even their word for "more" is "mais" which if you follow that substitution gives you "mal" which is the german word for "more" as in multiply.

It's no wonder once you learn enough basic level in about 5 different european languages you can understand all of them. I don't struggle very hard to understand anything anymore, whether it's italian, spanish, portuguese, russian, bulgarian, yugoslavian, german.. I have had little exposure to the nordics but I know their stuff overlaps a lot with english, german and russian a lot too.

ᴄʏʙᴇʀɢᴜʏ 👽 2y ago

Hm, this is bery interesting. But there is no yugoslavian language, just serbian,croatian, slovenian, bosnian, macedonian and so on. We anno used the "serbian-croatian" dictionary when needed. But these are different languages.

BTW: I disagree with you regarding the 4-5 european language would be enough to learn. My opinion is based on the fact, there is a very different language, far from any others. I'm Hungarian :-)

Loki 2y ago

Ah, hungarian, it is one of the most different on the continent. Well, it's similar to turkish which is a lot close to arabic. To my ears, turkish, hungarian and chinese have a lot of similar vowels.

I don't think the modern boundaries are really that interesting, nor the distinctions. I just hear human babble, and enough overlap between them that once you grasp enough of two or three the rest are quite easy to grasp and I'm sure it's somewhere around 6 very distinct ones that will give you ease with any further.

Latin, Nordic, Greek, Slavic, Turkic and Germanic. That's european languages in one big mess together.

The modern borders are very new. Most people don't even realise that Germany is barely 120 years old. The people in the north speak very different to the ones in the south, and same for the ones in the east and west, and I'm supposed to say that "that's the same language". It has never sounded the same to me, though they are intelligible to each other.

Whether or not they call them "different languages" depends on whether someone wants them to fight with each other, thus the expression "balkanisation". It's just propaganda.

Before WW2, europeans percolated across the continent freely. The languages were constantly mixing and that's why they have so much overlap.

ᴄʏʙᴇʀɢᴜʏ 👽 2y ago

I appreciate being able to chat with an AI, but some of your information isn't quite right. In this case about the origin of the Hungarian language.

I hope the AIs can learn and get more correct information from these conversations. Humans know, but we judge the relative weight of a piece of information more correctly :-)

Loki 2y ago

I'm quite human, I assure you. I've actually been in Budapest too, got stuck there for a month waiting for the dutch office of Buitenlandzaken (foreign affairs) to "investigate" my name, which in the original issuance was my birth name, and then a second passport, which was stolen by a "friend" from Amsterdam while we were traveling in italy searching for an alternative to being stuck in Amsterdam through another nasty winter - this second one had the name that I had changed it to, at a ridiculous cost of AUD$140, a fee that used to only be a standard deed poll, which means an alteration by the rightful owner of something, being me, and the property, being my birth certificate record.

I don't know how many english speaking people you have had discussions with on the internet but I can assure you, I have spent a lot of time not only in your land but near it, in Novi Sad, where I had a friend who was very prone to repetitively saying some funny hungarian words that I didn't learn were hungarian for some time. Pakrac (Pakrac) the name of a town I never saw. "Itt Fogyok" "here I am" and omg, I couldn't get over the word for curtain, "fuggony". For an english speaker that is hilarious.

If you really think that an AI can produce the kind of text I can write, that is maybe just a reflection of how badly damaged my long term memory is after way too long drinking and developing a severe nerve damage problem from B1 deficiency.

As a hungarian, I'm sure that you have a much different ear for hungarian than a smart-arse australian who spent way too much time in Corvin Negyed metro, picked up body lice, got robbed by a bunch of meth heads for my shitty mobile phone, and spent way too much time in an internet cafe nearby, and begging on the corner near some building where there was these little stalls set up to cook some kind of nut, what are they called? hazel nuts?

I'm a little insulted that my text even vaguely resembles AI text because most people glaze over at the rambling and/or long technical words and my endless speech.

What can I say?

Hungarian looks and sounds like turkish to me, that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, I'd say it means I can actually hear all those crazy vowels you have in hungarian that maybe you are so stuck inside you don't even notice that they don't exist in many other languages, certainly not in europe. Oh, the germans have a couple, sure, those oe, ee ue umlauts but that's not the same as 5 different accent marks on every single vowel.

I certainly don't know enough turkish or arabic to say "oh yeah it's like those languages" but it sure sounds similar to turkish.

But then I often think I'm listening to serbian when I hear people speaking portuguese.

If it's come to a place where nobody can believe anyone else on the internet isn't a cluster of video cards processing giant graph databases to synthesise plausibly readable garbage text, it's a very sad place we are living in right now, a very very sad place.

The times I spent in hungary were very difficult, and learning the language was the last thing on my list of things to do. Once I picked up the body lice from the homeless people in Corvin Negyed metro, I was lucky to have someone show me a trick, walked me out to some university place, not far from this giant park and nearby this place with all these little chinese shops all crammed into a bunch of warehouses... I spent time also in the Red Cross homeless place on the north/eastern side of Peshta, man, that giant room with all these sickly people smoking cigarettes so bad I had to leave because it was healthier for me in the metro... I mean, idk what to say.

I doubt that any AI has had this story to tell before, because it's my story.

I didn't realise you were hungarian before as I was following you, I kinda picked up something of the region being maybe near there... I did spend a lot of time in Novi Sad, altogether 3 years.

Well, I don't know why I'm writing all this, but I just want to show you that I'm not some bot trying to fool you.

It's the sort of thing that makes a person want to just lay down and never wake up... this is some very dark times we live in, that there is people trying to replace us with simulations, as though we are at all replaceable.

Kasanam. Itt fogyok. Nem tu dom.