Replying to Avatar Laeserin

One of the things Nostr needs (nostr:npub1dtgg8yk3h23ldlm6jsy79tz723p4sun9mz62tqwxqe7c363szkzqm8up6m and nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6) are right about this) is better #marketing. It's going to take months or years of repeating the message over and over, to drill it far enough into people's heads, that they turn to us in an emergency (when user inertia lifts).

I try, but I have little reach outside of Nostr because I'm more of a quality assurance specialist and we also don't have enough of those. I can't do both, for the entire protocol.

Do we have any sales and marketing reps in here?

nostr doesn't need marketing. If you think it does, you need patience. The protocol isn't going anywhere. People thought Bitcoin needed marketing too.

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It did. Bitcoin had intensive marketing.

Some of the marketing I was intrigued by was "DCA and chill" and "Stack sats. Stay humble." and the whole "Honeybadger don't care." Meme. Those were good and had a future-oriented, positive focus.

Also choosing orange as a color has me associating anything 🍊 with Bitcoin.

Bitcoin marketed itself with NGU.

And then people sold when Number Went Down. 😂

Nostr isn't money. You can't just get an npub and then sit on it for 10 years and then exchange it for a private jet. You need to have some reason for moving, that isn't merely a Get Rich scheme.

Bitcoin isn't a scheme either and all those people that sold along the way are kicking them selves now wondering if it's too late.

You can get an npub, sit in it for ten years and come back and reclaim your identity. That's more valuable than people are aware of. Just how Bitcoin is more valuable than people are aware of

These kind of responses are so tone deaf it’s not funny.

- Zero concept of how networks actually work and grow.

- No idea about network or anti-network effects.

- Ignores the fact that bitcoin had intensive marketing from the beginning,

- AND blind to the fact that bitcoin is a financial network, with a direct financial incentive to participate (something Nostr doesn’t have).

Just forgot about zaps huh?

Zaps are just a substitute for likes. They’re largely meaningless. And they are FAAAAR from an economic model

Zaps are not a substitute for likes. Bitcoin is the economic model, your time, labor, and energy.

Provide value, get value. Ask #tunestr of they're meaningless and far from an economic model. It's so early and it's already demonstrably working.

I used to think that too. But look at the behaviour. People pass around “numbers on a screen” which don’t really mean much. There’s no significant net bitcoin entering. It’s mainly the same amount of bitcoin just switching hands amongst the same people.

So what’s happening, if we’re being objective, is that people are treating zaps more and more like likes or other reactions.

We need to think about this further. It’s far from an economic model like mining

There's no significant Bitcoin entering, yet. Also, circular economy is what we're working towards and that's what you describe.

I think monetizing social media is not the right way. The ones who are getting paid for their opinions tend to stick to them to continue getting paid and can't express their true opinions which in return damage their followers.

If I'm following you it is because I value your opinions and I would like to know that it is your true opinion without any biases like having profit. When profit involved things get messy.

As we all know from history the ones telling the truth are the ones most regarded.

Yeh. Zaps create in some ways a perverted incentive to say what you think you want people to hear. Not what’s actually valuable.

A lot we’re not understanding here

Indeed and at least we are on the road, we'll get there by trial and error.

This.

I built a relay, so I kind understand the concept of networks...

No you understand the technical component. Not how network effects actually work

I understand network effects man. Why Meta, Apple, Google, Microsoft have the upper hand. The network effect is massive to overcome. My argument is nostr does not need marketing to overcome them. All it needs is time. Same as BTC. The network effect of the dollar is the absolute biggest one on the planet. Just like nostr, Bitcoin will not overcome it's network effect for potentially decades.

Yup. Nostr and Bitcoin are singularities with large pull, because on open networks your competition is helping you grow rather than stealing energy from you like a zerosum system.

Nostr and Bitcoin are positive sum

Bitcoin has the luxury of time far more than Nostr does.

Why?

Because fiat money is actively collapsing. The need for bitcoin is stronger, and while it’s a more significant change (money is the base language) it’s got time on its side.

Nostr on the hand, if it doesn’t achieve some sort of escape velocity in the next 2-5yrs, is going to be relegated to the fringe because centralised providers are “good enough” for most people, and/or other networks will emerge (see the work TBD is doing for DIDs, and there’s much more).

The mistake is to think their paths are equivalent. They’re not. Bitcoin has a century to win. Nostr…a decade or two. Or somewhere thereabouts.

🤝 Well I'm building a relay to help nostr flourish. Thank you for entertaining our conversation and your insightful replies. We're in this together even if we may disagree on some things.

Let me ask you this. If Bitcoin had no marketing at all, would it have failed?

The answer is no. You are free to disagree.

Yes it would’ve, because nobody would’ve know about it.

Had Silk Road and Wikileaks not existed, or Roger Ver, Voorhees or Antonopolous to evangelise in the early days - bitcoin would’ve disappeared.

The very fact that businesses sprouted up, people discussed it, and entire communities of evangelists emerged is what got bitcoin the attention it needed to develop economic mass.

There’s no way around effective marketing and messaging.

You still can't buy anything other than fiat.

That’s not entirely true. But it is mostly true

Those tools existed because there was an organic demand. Silk road didn't market Bitcoin. Bitcoin fulfilled a market need.

The people you listed were all altruistic and not really marketing. More like deciples. Too bad some of them fell off the deep end.

I was going to buy your book through geyser btw. I probably still will. I found geyser through nostr. Ya know ... Network effects and all... Marketing can help. I'm not "against" marketing nostr. I simply argue it will not be the differentiating factor in nostrs success.

I appreciate the comment about the book. And I promise it will be the best Sats you’ve ever spent.

I’m also glad you’re not against marketing. But my position is that, for every 10,000 we’ll build software products, only a couple really achieve scale - and that’s due to (in some cases luck, but) superior go to market.

Cold card is case in point. It’s far superior to Ledger. But ledger outsells it 500:1

Now..this is fine for a general product like that. But network live and die by the density.

It’s very easy to lose network density and to get anti-network effects if messaging and go to market unclear.

We can have the best product/protocol, but if people don’t know where it “lives” in their minds, it’s all for naught.

I recommend Andrew Chen’s work on Network effects btw. His book “the cold start problem” is absolutely fantastic

Thank you for the recommendation. I will definitely read it.