Just saw a “flashbots on bitcoin” pitch deck. I’ve never seen such a blatant and dangerous attack on bitcoin.
Make no mistake if this succeeds, and MEVil becomes a big thing on bitcoin, Bitcoin is doomed.
Discussion
Any further information on this (links)? I’m interested in learning more.
Explain please
Thank you. Part of me thinks that that the block subsidy in segwit created an incentive for non-financial data and thereby increases the risk of MEVil. Would you agree with that?
By block subsidy I meant witness discount.
No, there’s enough value in these things it doesn’t matter if it’s discounted at the fee level or not, people would eventually have done it. The question is only if they do it carefully or not.
Could a softfork to 4mb blocks allow the removal of the witness discount? I apologize in advance if this is a dumb idea/question 😏
No, this would be a terrible idea. People are going to put data on the chain anyway, the witness discount encourages them to put the data in a place that is much cheaper for the bitcoin network.
I don't understand how it is cheaper for the network if my node stores the data either way, whether it's in the witness section or not. Or does a node not actually store the witness?
The theory is that the witness data can be pruned after you download and verify it. This would reduce the space needed to store the full list of transactions.
This is the theory but I’m not sure there is much practical benefit.
Firstly, many nodes are probably already pruning out all the transactions they don’t care about which reduces storage space immensely.
Secondly, full nodes need to store that witness data so they can bootstrap new nodes.
Thirdly, between bandwidth and storage space, nodes are more likely bandwidth constrained. All that jpeg witness data needs to be downloaded and verified by every node.
Matt, what am I missing?
I heard about the theory of pruning the witness data during the 2017 fork wars, but haven't crossed it IRL. The only way of pruning AFAIK is pruning the total chain size by storing only the most recent blocks, but storing those in full. Would really like to know about actually pruning witness data. Unfortunately I'm not code-savvy enough to read the source 🥺
Hmm. Could you explain this to me like I'm a brand new hatched Nostrich?
Thats what I said.
Matt just throws this shit out there without any context.
Explain. Is it possible without any changes? Can we prevent it?
Is it just more FuD or is it a real thing.
"Bitcoin is doomed" is a pretty big statement without any reference to judge your observation's validity.
I've seen you do this a few times now.
No, I’m never a fan of such claims. In this case I’m not joking.
https://bluematt.bitcoin.ninja/2024/04/16/stop-calling-it-mev/
Wouldn't an out of band payment always be less economical than just mining the free market of fee attached transactions?
Essentially these miners would be doing a "favor" no fee attached transaction for whoever wants to be included in the block correct?
Depends, a user’s wallet might not have a way to do RBF easily or they may not have enough funds available on chain.
I think if it became pervasive miners would be doing themselves a disservice by constantly taking out of band transactions. They could do it no doubt but they would be missing out on revenue. I could see them doing it for dust to help consolidate for people.
To be clear, out of band fees is not the same thing as out of band transactions.
I fully expect fee and transaction markets will progress to be public and private.
The same way it costs more for a person with a brokerage account to transact in public markets vs those connected to the exchange. I don't see any problem with that. The market will develop how it does.
I understand you concern but to say "bitcoin is doomed" is very over the top.
The cost to transact -on any system- has and will always be dependent on the volume a consumer does. This is how all public markets operate.
The #Bitcoin halving is priced in for the 0.1% of the world population that understands it. the other 99.9% aren’t paying attention. get ready for the green candles🚀
This is the phase we’ve been preparing for since the lows of late 2022, Until then just keep stacking, and build your sats with passive arbitrage tools to 100x your sats.
If you’re a fan of #bitcoin and you haven't rebelcapitalist yet then I don’t even know what you’re doing here!
Vip group: https://t.me/rebelcapitalistshow
I share your concern about the potential impact of MEVil on Bitcoin. It's important for the community to stay vigilant and work together to protect the integrity of the network. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. #ProtectBitcoin