Vendors might need to consider that the goods they sell for Bitcoin, when translated directly from fiat prices, are WAAAY over-priced.
Discussion
This is something I have thought about and talk a fair bit about. Just because you sell something for Bitcoin and its premium doesn’t mean you can charge exorbitant prices.
My regular pasture-raised ghee is just under what it costs to get the same quality ghee made in USA online. My 100% grass fed is slightly higher, because I make so little of it and my input costs are also super high with that one I have to raise the prices on it.
My coffee is expensive because first of all coffee has risen a lot in the stock market, it surpassed ATH of 1977. And Trump's tariffs don't help much either 👌.
I mean, I wasn't calling anyone out in particular. The point was in 3 months the profits from ever unit sold will be up 20% or so. If your long view is shorter than that maybe reassess. If YOU feel your coffee is expensive, that might be another sign.
For me it is a good price. Since it is 100% Colombian specialty coffee.
I repeat what my clients say: that my coffee is expensive.
I mean, that's who pays for it so, you know, that's pretty solid information.
I agreed with your original post, but this response is terrible. Businesses have costs, people to pay, etc and you're saying "just wait 3 months and your have 20% profits".
If your margin is 5%, and you reduce the price by 10% your not gunna be able to pay your vendors for the next month. Also, that guaranteed 20% profit youre talking about historically has a risk of dropping 80%, so this makes it seem like you're saying that someone shouldnt really have a business unless they have enough reserves to pull through a bear market which is a little elitist. Saying that as someone who doesn't pay himself from the farm and doesnt plan to until its around 15 years in, but i recognize that is because i have privileges others dont.
I literally do this so, unless you have a Counter-factual, I'm not going to take speculation as evidence.
As for drawdown you know prices can increase too right? So in the 80% drawdown environment, you adjust prices upward to compensate. I am not talking massive reserves during drawdowns, your input costs are also in Bitcoin. Everyone keeps trying to measure value in dollars and that's why they are so confused. The ruler keeps changing every five minutes.
Margins we are talking about are actually crazy. 21k sats for an 8oz bag of coffee? It's at most 12k sats for a KILO at wholesale. 43k sats for a jar of nut butter? You think I haven't done the calculations? These without the appreciation are about 20-40% over market. Add on the BTC price it's ridiculous.
"The margins we are talking about are crazy"
Sounds like you were trying to call some individual businesses out but didnt tag them because your initial post seemed generic. My margins are razor thin even without paying myself for labor. So im not sure what you're actually talking about anymore.
You literally just countered my point with "you know price can also go up"... I raise pigs. I buy a ton of pig feed monthly. I sell the pigs once per year. If i sell the feeder pigs only for bitcoin at a 10% discount and the price cuts in half i then have significantly reduced revenue to then pay for the next ton of feed. A person who starts that business and that is what happens their first cycle is fucked and probably will either lose their home or be cutting into their saving to actually pay for their mortgage in dollars.
Inputs are not priced in btc. They are cash bc you cannot buy grain for pigs for bitcoin (at least where i am). So i come up with a price by adding up the cost in usd, adding the margin i want and then convert that to bitcoin, but charge a premium for paying in cash. Saying "oh becaause long term bitcoin *might* go up, bitcoin vendors should be discounting their good" comes across as "entrepreneurship is only for the privileged class"
Look, I am not going to do accounting for every eventuality in business. I also am not talking about specific businesses because a majority of those pricing in BTC are 30-40% over market.
There is no "might" go up, it WILL go up when priced in dollars but that is not my point. The point is if I had a business that relied on a bike messenger to never get tired that would be a bad decision right? So, sourcing your inputs in Dollars and charging in BTC is also unwise. The only option for those whose inputs are fiat denominated is to take excess profits (those above running costs) and save in Bitcoin. If you are trying to mix fiat and Bitcoin, you are gonna have a bad time, such as over-pricing your goods or having a debt basis that relies on Bitcoin acretion.
A simple analogy is money is a lubricant and you are mixing synthetic with conventional and your machinery will start to have problems due to their different levels of viscosity.
This "privileged" crap is marxist drivel. You either have the means to produce or you don't. It's not a privilege to add to the market in an efficient way.
The privilege crap has nothing to do with Marxism, thats a strawman fallacy not actually addressing the argument i made.
Your other points dont make sense. "Sourcing inputs in dollars and charging BTC is unwise" you do realized its impossible to jump start a circular economy without that right? Pretty much 0-5% of the inputs you need to run a farm are for sale in bitcoin, and that drops to 0% in many places.
So in reality, again your initial post was about those charging specific dollar prices you disagree with, but were unwilling to call them out directly and instead just generalize
Temporal arbitrage exists for vendors in any currency that understand the true future value of BTC.
Week by week #zapsnag pricing will need to adjust! Hoping for more of this.
Not at that time.
Agreed. Most of the products I see posted are even more than the most expensive products in the store. Presumably people are willing to pay those prices more than once to try it.
I sell nostr:nprofile1qqsf3vs4hphtnaqg6ekqxg3vfkhuhetnrejt696dn6l292jm9rjvntcpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qgawaehxw309ahx7um5wghxy6t5vdhkjmn9wgh8xmmrd9skctc65awq5 devices for slightly less in Bitcoin than fiat, and that pays me far less than minimum wage. I'm not in it for profit though. I'm in it primarially because I want the devices and secondarially so other people can have nice things too.
Just a heads up, I think your store buy page might be down, just getting a whie empty page.
Thanks. It had been unstable andnow it looks like it's now gone from unstable to completely non-operational. ☹️
I've been trying to find an alternative and ruled out magic web store, superstore, goodstr, plebeian market, and cypher space.
Next one up is shopstr.store.
If that doesn't pan out, I guess I'll just have people email me for an invoice until conduit market is released.
I'll re-double my efforts. 🫡
Not a fan of Zeuspay, BTCPay Server, or Zaprite?
AFAIK, BTCPay is just payment processing. It doesn't have product listing, shoppping cart, order placement, tracking, etc.
I'm not familiar with ZeusPah, but I know Zeus is just a wallet. Fine for selling things at a swap meet, but not for online orders.
I'm not familiar with Zaprite, so I'll put that on my list of things to research
So, BTC Pay server is a fully featured store. You can create items for sale and descriptions, as well as fields for customer information and shipping. All accounting is kept on the server as well and can be exported. There are several API integrations for other applications and all sales go directly to your own self-host wallet.
nostr:nprofile1qqszmxrnkfdl9hdxzstgf4zdt6mk4avlzemc3fvwxcatzeclalhg0uspp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcq3camnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wvf5hgcm0d9hx2u3wwdhkx6tpdsgn5qx9 could probably describe ZeusPay better than me but nostr:nprofile1qqs9val6td43edk4hmnct5yg4yzv6zqgy4ft7awl8eps9n4qzkja8cgpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet59uq3wamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wdah8xct5wvhx7un89uq36amnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3dwfjkccte9emkcann9eehqctrv5hsj3pt3x sells his book using it.
And zaprite was more of the payment processing than a store host or order organizing solution. (I just threw it out as another popular sales integration.)
Well now I'm much more interested in BTC Pay server. It was already on ny list of something to explore someday if I get bored, but it just got bumped up in priority.
Thanks for the info
I don't begrudge a person trying to make a profit, and I do not presume to know their COB. I do believe that we've become delusional and disconnected from what anything of true quality and value costs to create. My hope is that free market forces would have us end up in the middle of what is fair to both buyer and seller eventually. And yes, in many cases the rent is just too damn high....
Just like how people don't understand how Bitcoin could reach the millions of dollars range, most people don't understand price discovery. The Austrians say it's your duty to charge the highest price people are willing to pay. That is generally true in an economy where the money is a know quantity. Dollars are unknown and whit everyone equating the value of a Bitcoin to some dollar amount it skews the relative price differential of goods.
you aren't wrong but small batch and local just has less economies of scale and will cost more, but I think as circular economies grow and baseline rates of production go up, thise niche and local good makers can invest in capitol heavy processes and the prices can come down.
By this logic a lemonade stand should always cost exorbitant amounts for a single cup. You must organize your business plan appropriately managing outputs to add to more than inputs witout requiring irrational customer behavior. (Paying 10k sats for a cup of Lemonade). The money doesn't make the entrepreneur more savvy, the business application leveraging resources properly does.
sure if we take it to that extreme, but by that same token a lemonade stand can't compete with tropicana and we shouldnt expect them too. Somewhere in between there is acceptable but your point is well taken. I'm happy to pay a slight premium for a good well made product and invest in circular economies. I.e. id choose to pay a few more dollars for a bushel of apples from the local farmers market that accepts btc than sams club. I could spend less sats at sams club using thebtccompany but i'd rather incentivize the social connections.
Agreed, I am talking about the 30-40% over market prices for similar market goods. Not slight differences in competitive prices. 2-5% margin over established competitors is perfectly fine. That's why I emphasized "WAAAY" overpriced goods.
makes sense I read it wrong I think we agree then!