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Sorry for taking so long to respond, I wanted to be more concise.

There is objective wrong -- full stop, no gobbledegook. I don't believe I am allowed to force myself on people, I don't believe that having sex with losers of any age is good, I don't believe cognative ability is a spectrum, and every time someone's described moral relativism to me, I have always disagreed with them.

Do you consider it moral relativism if someone just doesn't want to treat rape victims like time bombs or wild animals? You're right that a rape victim might ask questions with faulty and evil premises, but any society that can't respond to something as simple as a poorly chosen question is profoundly incompetent.

You're right that I like the feeling of being ostracized for my views on pedophilia. You are right that I have made my views on pedophilia part of my personality. However, I refuse to see myself as a victim and my beliefs are the only meaningful difference between myself and others. I'm confident in my beliefs, but they will always be up for debate. I'm on Nostr because I want to engage with people directly. Maybe for obvious reasons I don't want to talk about my race or background.

makeheroism 3mo ago 💬 1

No you’re a moral relativist. You won’t force yourself on others but you have no problem with others doing it so you can enjoy the fruits of those labors. You have bent (made relative) the idea of force in that scenario so you can get what you want. It is not objective to you that no one should be forcing themselves on anyone else. And engaging in any relations with a child is by force. That’s just how that works and it’s not up for debate. If you recognized objective wrongs you would take issue with the production of images or videos that you’ve personally benefitted from. That’s inherently relativistic. So honestly knowing that there is objective wrong and attempting to pick and choose when that applies to you when you want it to makes you more of a relativist.

Nope that’s just observing reality for what it is. I’m not dehumanizing the people that are raped by your types (that’s all on you). I’m being empirically honest about the things that these people go through because of people like you.

You go on to blame the victim of rape while attempting to seem sympathetic. That’s a neat little trick.

Then you go on to make yourself seem reasonable where society “fails to” deal with rape victims correctly? So again using rape victims as a shield so you can do what you want and then blaming society cause….moral relativism.

More insulating yourself against criticism. So you feel morally correct in your beliefs and shift your morality to deflect criticism. Then you admit that this isn’t just a debate of ideas and that this is about your sense of self. So there’s no changing your mind. You dismiss the victimhood of anyone else and cast yourself as principled and heroic for having the mental illness that you’ve chosen for yourself. You’re not a rebel or punk or whatever for your self imposed isolation you’re just mentally ill by choice. You seem to just want to brag about how mentally ill you are.

That seems to be your entire purpose on here. Your identity is so closely tied to your mental illness that none of it is even remotely up for any real debate. So. You seem to just be here to openly be mentally ill unashamed and probably find other completely deranged individuals that have the same delusional worldview.

Do you come from a Jewish family?

Your style of arguing is very Jewish and they seem to be very into pedophilia historically.

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Discussion

Scoundrel 3mo ago 💬 2

Actually that's why I quit watching child porn. I wish other people had given that same argument you are giving now, it probably would have helped. People should demonstrate the strength to live in their own proclaimed ideal world. If someone wants to proclaim that children shouldn't be abused then it's not enough that they don't personally abuse children. They shouldn't be taken seriously unless they also act to live a life that's independent of the products of child abuse. Even if I don't feel guilty, (again, watching child porn isn't immoral) I am still disappointed in myself for benefitting from images and videos that came from child abuse.

Is the only way you can feel secure in yourself by changing my mind? I didn't think that's why you were arguing with me. I certainly never needed to change your mind to enjoy arguing with you and hearing what you have to say. I still believe you are wrong, I just want to know how you came to your wrong beliefs. I don't see why this can't be both a debate of ideas and about our sense of self.

If I all I cared about was meeting other pedophiles, or meeting someone with my same worldview then I'd find some homogenous pedophile fediverse instance or some "MAP" echo chamber. We both see ourselves as principled and unashamed of our beliefs, but that's exactly why we are willing to talk with eachother, isn't it?

There is a stereotype that Jews are pedophiles, so maybe it wouldn't be surprising if I had a Jewish background. I'm curious though, is there any particular aspect of how I argue that comes off as Jewish to you?

Also, your attempts to justify the fact that victims of child abuse go on to kill themselves or commit more abuse still come off poorly. Sure, whatever, you say I'm blaming the victim for their own choices and I'm using them as a shield for the fact that I think cute things are hot. These choices from rape victims still seem like a reason to rethink some of society's premises, not a reason to say the victims are better off dead. The victims of abuse are the only ones who have the inherent right to do anything about it. A society that doesn't respect them has no defense against abuse.

makeheroism 3mo ago

Watching child porn is immoral.

You don’t have a mind to change. If you did you’d know that it wouldn’t be about changing your mind but rather changing your identity. You identify as x. To change your mind I would have to prove to you that all of the things stacked on top of your identity is also a lie. That’s not going to happen. That’s also why this can’t be a discussion about “ideas and sense of self” they’re one and the same to you. Not knowing this about your own views means that you lack self awareness so deeply that there is mind to be changed.

I’m willing to continue to call you a disgusting mentally ill person that should be decapitated by their own family in public until you decide to solve that problem one way or another. It’s not really a debate or argument. I’m just insulting you over and over again.

I’ve already attempted to explain how children can’t consent. You won’t agree because then your identity is called into question. The question isn’t whether I think victims would be better off dead. The idea is that I would rather a child be dead than raped. I don’t think that you grasp this concept because you don’t see them as people. Like I don’t think you’re either intelligent enough or mature enough (mentally) to understand any person outside of yourself. There’s plenty of evidence of this from what you’ve been saying.

Society has an obligation to prevent children from being in these situations and you stand directly in opposition to that. In a functioning society you would’ve been swiftly dealt with. The problem isn’t “defense against abuse.” The problem is that the defenses are not being enforced. All people like you belong in institutions or prison or the ground. They used to castrate people like you.

You’ve basically willingly decided to be the biggest and worst piece of shit possible because society doesn’t work right in this particular type of way. And you’ve created a moral loophole and an identity built around that. Like essentially you saw something in society and said “it’s all broken” so as a reward for seeing something very obvious you said to yourself “I’ll give myself a little treat” of being a deranged mentally ill freak. And you applaud yourself for that decision and look down on people who don’t decide to pat you on the back for having lewd preferences and having a bad internal relationship with sex.

Scoundrel 3mo ago 💬 2

Why do you keep on bringing up the impossibility of changing my mind? I see no reason why we can't have have a good argument even if "I have no mind to change" even if neither of us would ever change our minds. Not that I have a problem if you would prefer to insult me though I always appreciate the pursuit of a well reasoned, personal, and cutting insult.

Speaking of which I hear your insult; you are calling me a disgusting mentally ill person that should be decapitated by my own family in public. But you haven't explained what that would accomplish besides my subsiquent inability to talk with you or think about things that you don't like. Ok, I'm dead. Now what?

You make the ridiculous claim that society has many ways to defend against abuse that aren't being enforced other than my suggestion of working with victims. I know there are many jurisdictions where judges just let abusers walk free, but I get the insane impression that this isn't what you are talking about. Can you explain yourself?

The choices of rape victims are a reason to rethink some of society's premises, not a reason to say that it's better that the victims be dead. Why are you so opposed to just talking with them that you would rather they be dead? Have you ever talked with one of these evil rape victims yourself?

makeheroism 3mo ago

Because your identity is too wrapped up in this belief. I’ve already explained this. You as an individual define yourself as X. That means there is no way of presenting facts or giving you information or anything of that nature that will shift your perspective. It’s just not possible.

The world is rid of a vile disgusting individual with wretched beliefs and your family is tasked with the endeavor so they will feel shame and sorrow for creating you and subsequently being forced to take you from this world. They would know your true nature and hopefully decided to leave this world themselves because of the thing they created and the trauma you put others through including them.

Violence is the way we handle abusers. Brutal and unmitigated violence.

“The choices of rape victims” how about the choices of rapists. There wouldn’t be rape victims if we turned you all into eunuchs at the first sign of this type of mental illness. You realize what rape is right? Rape is definitionally something that happens by force. That’s absent of choice you fucking moron. That’s why “the choices of rape victims” aren’t my priority. I’m looking at the people doing the forcing. How is this something I have to explain to you.

It would be better if there weren’t victims. You keep trying to get me to villainize victims (for some reason—you probably actually feel deep guilt and shame that you will inevitably have to deal with).

The options in the original scenario were the child be dead or the child be raped.

If we are expanding the question. It would be best if all pedophiles were dead. All rapists. All violent criminals.

There’s literally zero consequences to just continuously executing you people. Society just gets better and better exponentially and there are no down sides. Eventually there won’t be anymore and no one will want to do it because of the consequences.

You feel so free to express your depraved behavior because you haven’t faced any consequences.

Scoundrel 3mo ago 💬 2

Okay, my identity is wrapped up in my beliefs and no matter what facts and perspective you give I will never change. I love talking with people like that. Talking with someone is a great opportunity to practice articulating my thoughts, and it's a great opportunity to figure out and test why some people disagree with me. Why is the fact that I won't change or whatever a problem for you?

So you say my parents are sad and kill themselves too. How is the world any different now that it's missing one vile and disgusting individual with wretched beliefs and now that it's missing the two parents of that individual? Now some store is missing it's cashier or whatever we are saying my job is, and now nobody is living in the same city, town, or apartment building as me. What's the actual effect of that? You don't have to argue with me any more? Do you think my ideas will suddenly stop being correct if I'm dead and if everyone around me is dead? Are you just so insecure that this is the only way you vould ever feel better? Or is there some other consequence you are expecting?

Who have I tramatized besides you? I hate to talk too much about my personal life, but my family certainly isn't tramatized. My sexual attraction is none of my family's business. What are the signs of mental illness? Being a Jew? Growing up with the wrong cultural background? No offense if you believe in the extermination of all Jews of course, I wouldn't hold that against you. I'm just trying to understand how you would ever manage to catch a pedophile like me unless I'm stupid enough to rape some kid.

I feel so free to express my depraved beliefs because the only consequence is that I get to have interesting conversations with people who disagree with me. Our right to speak freely without one of us being killed is a law of nature, not a privelege granted by society.

makeheroism 3mo ago

Oh because you’re a sick depraved individual that should either realize that about yourself and work to change it or be dead. You’re a burden on society just by existing. You bring everything in the world down by not changing. You’re a cancer. The entire idea of having a civilization and civilization is about protecting women and children and you are a predator of children so you should correct that about yourself and because you refuse you must die.

There is one less person that aims to victimize children. And your parents failed to raise you with any values so they should be dead as well.

Your ideas are already and have always been incorrect. They’ll be incorrect no matter who says they’re correct. They’ll be incorrect no matter who is alive or who is dead.

If you all die the world would be better of. Like if magically at the count of five you all disappeared completely the remaining people in the world would be better off because you are gone.

You haven’t traumatized me in the least. I just know you’re a bad person who should correct their behavior. You are constantly and consistently traumatizing yourself though.

You should confess to your family. You should confess to everyone you know in fact. See how people that care about you respond to you. Maybe someone will be able to explain to you why your mentality is wrong better than I can. Or maybe there’s a reason you wouldn’t do that? Maybe you’re worried about people’s responses? Hmmm why could that be? Could it be that there’s no good way to explain your lifestyle to people? “Other people just don’t understand how smart I am that I just like cute things so much!” But that’s not where it ends is it. That’s not what it is at all. That’s the nice way you put it to yourself and explain it to strangers on the internet who know you’re insane. You’ll object but you’re lying and we both know it.

Everyone in your life would turn on you if you were honest about yourself with them and you know it.

Most people proudly declare to their family when they have found the person of the opposite sex that they’re going to spend their lives with. Why would you feel like it’s none of your family’s business who you want to spend time with? Why would that be? Why wouldn’t you feel like it’s something to share with those around you? What would make you feel that way? Hmmmm hmmmmm what could it be?????

What could those signs of mental illness be? It’s a total mystery. You already know that you’re very sick and I’m not going to pull out the DSM. In fact I think pedophilia in and of itself is classified as a mental illness. But I guess that’s new information to you. Or you’ll find a way to explain how in your case it’s different.

Theres no reason for me to attempt to find you. It’s a waste of my time.

You don’t feel free to express these ideas with your family. Why not? Would you face consequences? What kind of consequences? What if you told a random father of a young child? Would you still feel so entitled to exercise to that “law of nature?” Do you do that? Is that something you do frequently? Tell a random man who happens to have a gun in his hand your sexual preferences. He has the right bestowed on him to carry a weapon and you have the right to speak freely. Why don’t you try that out? Why wouldn’t you try that out? What’s stopping you?

Scoundrel 3mo ago 💬 2

Oh I suppose we don't have the right to speak freely to anyone without being killed. It's more accurate to say that we have the right to speak freely to people who can't escalate to phyisical violence. Just like how we are having a conversation even though neither one of us can kill eachother. That's the right I'm talking about. That's the kind of free expression I choose to participate in, and because of it, I get to have interesting conversations with people who disagree with me.

I also plan to proudly declare to my family when I find an adult of the opposite sex that I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. The fact that I want to spend lots of time with my family and lots of time with this hypothetical adult wife is why it becomes their business, because at a certain point the scheduling only works if everyone meets up together. Like a party. A mental illness on the other hand isn't the same thing. I can easily wait until I'm alone to jack off to loli porn. That's why my sexual attraction isn't any of their business.

The idea that a person's family has the right to know what they finds hot reminds me of this funny, but horrifyingly cringey post:

If you think the DSM-5's definition of pedophilia perfectly matches your own then I don't mind pulling it up. Well the actual DSM manuel costs money, but there are plenty of sources repeating what it says. I found a page that lists the following three criterion for who is a pedophile: A) An individual who has had arousing fantasies about, urges for, or behaviors with a prepubescent child or children. B) The individual has acted out these sexual desires, or is experiencing significant distress or difficulty as a result of these desires. C) The Individual is 16 years of age, and at least five years older than the child or children noted in Criterion A.

Source: https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/pedophilic-disorder-dsm--5-302.2-(f65.4)

If I have only acted on my sexual attraction while alone and under privacy then what would even change if I stopped? How exactly are people supposed to see any signs that I'm a pedophile? Are you planning to take away the privacy and alone time of every person on Earth and hope that I don't stop? Unless I actually molest a child, unless there is an actual VICTIM you could never catch me. And unless society works with the victims of sexual abuse there is no guaruntee of being able to catch a predator. And unless society treats them like people rather than like time bombs or like animals, there is no guaruntee of being able to catch a predator. Except maybe all of the retarded child molesters you are apparently content to lump me in with. Go off king, catch all those guys for me.

makeheroism 3mo ago

Listen this is really boring. I just think you should be dead. So. That’s that. There’s no philosophical or ridiculous sociopolitical hypothetical debate to have. I’d prefer if you were in the ground. You’re the same as the worst version of pedophile you can think of. You’re all the same and you should all be dead. The world would be a better place.

It’s really disgusting that you use this false idea of compassion for victims. Just add that to the list of delusions and crippling mental illness we already know you have.

I don’t care about any of this conversation and berating you has lost its luster.

I just want you and anyone else who harbors sexual thoughts about children dead as soon as possible. The world will breath a sigh of relief.

Scoundrel 3mo ago

Okay, that's fine. Just let me know if you ever want to talk again. Hope you have a good day buddy.