I think one of the most dangerous ways to think of the future is to assume that human nature is fundamentally good, peaceful and cooperative. And that the only reason there's evil, war and competitive behaviors is due to perverse incentives and corrupt institutions.

There's literally no reason to believe this is true. It's seductive to think it true, because then you can simply focus on fixing those incentives and tearing down corrupt institutions. But it's a false promise to think there's this tied-up box of goodness waiting to escape on the other side.

Some people think this is cynical. I just thinks it's realistic. There is no destination for us. There's only the journey.

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There’s neither evil nor good,

There is just being

There is just sat-chit-ananda( existence, consciousness, bliss )

In fact, the people who think the box of goodness is waiting on the other side, are the ones who start justifying doing evil as a means to that end.

Why does it have to be utopian to fix incentives? Obviously fixing incentives goes a long way to creating a less bad world. Perfect worlds cannot and will not ever exist.

I agree we need to fix incentives. And it's really the only way you can change complex systems. But the problem is, every change to the system, creates new unexpected incentives. So the process of changing incentives never ends.

Exactly. The fact that a utopia is unreachable means there will always be work to be done to improve things aka the complex system. Is there really ppl out there under the impression that this is not the case?

Yep. So let’s just all be sensible and realize that we must have a persistent human culture of adapting and overcoming.

Under the current incentive structure shit naturally floats to the top. I believe this is exacerbated at the end of debt cycles.

The absolute reality is non-dual (Advaita ) according to the Hindu philosophy. The duality of evil and good exists only in the mind . Beyond the mind only the mystical pure substance remains

I'm not that into Eastern philosophy. Although, I am a moral skeptic, so I can more or less agree with this.

What do you mean by moral skeptic in this situation? Skeptical of the concept of morals?

Interesting thanks.

I’m still reading but what do you think of the claim(I hope I’m not butchering this) that morals are just a shorthand for meta-rules that have evolved as the winning game theory strategy for human civilization ?

Indeed , morals are just a reflection of the true ultimate ABSOLUTE reality that has always been there, always is and will always be because there’s none other than that ABSOLUTE reality

I think my clams a bit weaker. I can’t be sure if there’s an absolute set of morals that exist outside of us. But that the path dependent outcome of how we evolved has created a set of limited strategies that work generally across time.

I call this ABSOLUTE REALITY God.

The I AM.

The Alpha and Omega,

A to the Z,

the Beginning and the End.

The Almighty.

🙏🧡🙏

So moral scepticism is a passive-aggressive form of sarcasm :)

Nope!

This is interesting, have a look

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta

You're presenting a logical contradiction : strawman.

If one is to believe man is good, man will act in good ways no matter the incentives.

If one is to believe that man is neither good nor bad but behaves according to incentives then one would try to fix incentives.

You're saying that people who try to fix incentives believe man is good. That can't be true.

Prime example : Bitcoiners believe people are greedy, which is the basis for a good portion of the security model.

Time to go through all wars written down from the BCs and early ACs till today and see the cause :) check out how Penan people lived, one the oldest indegenous community. Also other indegenous community (mostly outside of US and also some within US )

Acredito que existe dentro do homem o bem e o mal. E o que sobressai é o que for alimentado.

Essa é a visão bíblica.

E daí concluo que se pegar apenas pessoas "boas" e criar uma nova sociedade em algum lugar remoto, o mal surgirá lá também.

Outra conclusão é que trabalhar por incentivar e desenvolver melhor caráter na sociedade é mais eficiente.