My principles are above fee estimation, it's a cheap excuse by shitcoiners.
We could survive just fine with inaccurate rate estimates, we always have.
Discussion
So then youd have spam and no accurate estimate of fee. Congrats
I repeat, your argumentation is a surrender, you just repeat what your favorite influencers say, the more people use software with filters the more it slows down the spread of spam, the last solution will be to send spam directly to the miners, that creates other problems? Yes, but you have to fight it, don't you?
Yea my "favorite influencer" is heavy on the filters side
Sounds like youre "fighting " for the sake of fighting, without understanding why youre fighting. Thats how you end up hurting yourself
This is easy, you use whatever you want and I'll use software with filters 🤷♂️
Exactly how incentives are supposed to be. Then we can talk later about how unfair it is that spam was undererred lol
Theyre not even a big issue, a little fee spike from degens every now and then. But nodes are designed for full blocks. The only thing that makes it more costly to host than financial transactions is that it bloats the utxo set. If payments cant compete economically with spam, then might as well just give up on bitcoin honestly lol
You're just as myopic as him about this issue. Stop listening to the political takes and learn the nuance.
Lmao tell me more about how the mempool doesnt affect fee estimation. Just because there may be other factors, doesnt mean its unaffected.
Im the only one providing nuance here. Feel free to contribute
I didn't say it has no affect whatsoever, dumbass.
So you have no argument
What a strange little mind you have.
Come back when youre ready to make an actual point.
All these "mempools dont affect fee estimation" comments with nothing to back it up are pathetic.
If youre gonna criticize people for "getting something wrong," then point out specifics.
The argument is that the impact on GOOD fee estimation is negligible to the point that we really don't care vs the other concerns, and anyone can implement a better fee estimation technique, and should, because shitty fee estimation relies on a very shaky set of assumptions, of which only one is that the mempools are all the same. Good fee estimation takes into account factors like previous confirmed blocks and other things, and at the very very least rakes into account cache in addition to the mempool.
You're just regurgitating talking points and pretending that that's all there is to understand. It's clear you don't want to learn by the way you argue, but in case you actually do want to learn, watch Bitcoin Audible Take_099 from nostr:nprofile1qqstnem9g6aqv3tw6vqaneftcj06frns56lj9q470gdww228vysz8hqpzdmhxue69uhkzmr8duh82arcduhx7mn9qy2hwumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcam28zl who goes much further into depth than most people, and who actually understands the tradeoffs at play here.
I love how people cry about "regurgitating talking points" only when its about something they disagree with. Meanwhile youre regurgitating talking points from Guy/Mechanic. Language is funny. And I love them and in fact listened to that episode.
The comparisons between email spam and btc spam isnt perfect, but they do a great job of explaining their side.
The issue is that there are very valid arguments on both sides. But pretending that everybody on the other side is malicious because they disagree with you because you want to LARP as a cypherpunk warrior is dangerous (not referring to you)
I tend to agree with you. And yeah that's rather not what I'm doing. I am regurgitating true talking points that are relevant and important after my own assessment lol! It would appear you are too, though you seemed unwilling to discuss things in a productive manner to me.
Just so you know, I am in favor of, foremost, property rights (people can and ought to be in control of their mempools and everything else about their node, which they are, even if they run Core or Libre, so long as they are not seriously misled), then, what I would like to see happen and what I personally do with my node, is a lot of filtering of spam but with more forgiving settings on OP_RETURN, around 160 bytes or less, with a penalty that kicks in when the mempool is full that requires them to pay a lot more per byte at that time (my setting is at like 4 weight units per byte). I want spam that is most harmful to be disincentivized the most, and spam that is less harmful to be disincentivized substantially, but reliably less than the most harmful crap, especially as there may indeed be legitimate transactions with arbitrary data, but at a cost to users. This paradigm being adopted by a significant number of nodes would make the path of least resistance for arbitrary data go somewhere least harmful, and yet still decrease spam, in an environment wherein miners have to take on additional risk to circumvent the spam filters.
The nodes are in control. I want to educate them further. If only I do this, it doesn't hurt me: my cache will fill in the blocks. If I and like 5% of other noderumners do this, we will have a noticeable, though slight, impact on the network. What's great about Bitcoin is that we don't all have to be right. That's something even Mechanic doesn't seem to get. I want real discussion though, we can't get to these solutions unless we engage that way.
Too much time on X has me too defensive too quickly, I think lol.
Although Ill admit the language of the post (anybody who disagrees with me is an enemy or aiding the enemy) is what initially triggered me as I hate that black and white level of thinking.
As for the filter debate, I dont actually have that strong of an opinion because I do think that more financial transactions on btc would price them out (although who knows, the "art" industry is full of money laundering shenanigans as is), and history has shown that filtering them out is a neverending cat and mouse game.
I have my issues with core, especially recently, but I do think OP_RETURN would be the least harmful way.
I think the most effective solution is to ruthlessly criticize and shame spammers lol
That's fair! I bet the best solution is a combination of a bunch of bitcoiners employing our two methods in tandem, honestly lol! Rough consensus is great