Nostr Web Client

Are nostr-tweets (neets?) not editable? :(

mads 2y ago

Not editable and not delectable, just forgettable on some relays

mads 2y ago

Deletable*

Ryan 2y ago

Mmmm... Delectable notes...

Technically deletable… if clients decide to apply delete events on top of notes, which is supposed to make them disappear.

So, also, technically, edit is possible by recreating a similar note just after a deletion.

mads 2y ago

Ah I thought it was not actually deleting because you can’t make sure all relays would overwrite?

Relays will just keep two events in a deletion context… the original message, and the deletion event.

It’s up to clients to make the event disappear once it gets the deletion event.

Maybe some smarter relays might directly remove the original event. But as far as I know, they’re supposed to be dumb, so… not expecting that.

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

You can't call it delete if somebody can keep a copy of it.

It's just misleading UI. Not cool.

Oh, you’re right…

Looking at https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/09.md

The specs says: “Relays SHOULD delete or stop publishing any referenced events that have an identical id as the deletion request. Clients SHOULD hide or otherwise indicate a deletion status for referenced events.”

brianco 2y ago

Maybe it should be called recall. There should be more transparency for the user about how it is handled by relays and clients.

then we get "total recall" and Schwarzenegger comes in with an exploding head... :D

*thinks carefully before submitting this note forever*

No deletes on the internet 💯

rabble 2y ago

Just because it’s not possible to be sure something got deleted, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be designing systems that are immutable. Users should be able to request their own content be deleted, either with a new message, or setting the expiration. Well behaved relays should respect that, and actually delete instead of just leaving it up to the client which might only get a partial feed and miss the delete message.

There will DEFINATELY be relays and bots which craw the network and archive things. But in the normal flow of the app, most users, will stop seeing and hosting content the original poster wanted to remove. It will take it out of normal circulation on the nostrverse and while not perfect, is important.

Of course, an “archiving relay” actively connected to a relay’s global feed where the original message has been sent would make sure the deleted message stays permanently in its books.

definitely *

F’ing hell 😂 This typo shall be inscribed in relay caches foreva!

now you know how scary this thing can get!! :D

Unless editing becomes the standard - it will be a whole topic... i mean editing 5% of characters - OK

"editing" an entire message to mean something else is more dubious. Perhaps readers should vote whether to accept or deny an edit! :D

I could see a NIP for edits happening 🤔

Probably worth while exploring and keeping the edits as a non-1 kind

been thinking about this for months/years with Twitter - a nice solution would be for clients to indicate an edit took place with a % number inside that icon saying how MUCH was edited :D

Yeah, much like deletes, it’s an entirely separate event that clients are free to process as they wish; the logical UI would be to show the edit history

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

Let's go! :)

bu5hm4nn 2y ago

As NIP-33 already defines replaceable events, wouldn't it be easier to just define a new kind for simple notes but that are replaceable?

Would probably also be better for backward compatibility?

That’s not backwards compatible though; that’d mean that we need to stop using kind 1 for these notes.

Plus, for editable notes yo want them to NOT be replaceable otherwise you lose history.

That’s a VERY good idea right there! 👆

I’ll write a NIP 🤝

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

You write I build (history of edits).

Deletions on the internet are just like exchange withdrawals.

Requests.

Nothing more.

You ask for a deletion, you might get it you might not. Just like 🌽 on an exchange.

It’s ok for the protocol to support sending the request, but calling it a deletion is a lie. 🤷‍♂️

Lysander Spooner 2y ago

Technically no, but technically most people who *need* to delete are being harassed by a gang or stalked by an ex or extorted by local popos in a small country w/o the sort of visibility you're talking about.

The need to pull your content out of just popular circulation in those instances can be lifesaving. I've had to do it twice.

I’m sorry to hear that. Nostr does support delete requests, the argument is that that’s all it is, a request: once you put something out there you have no longer control of who made a copy, took a picture, memorized it, etc.

Dajjal 2y ago

This debate has already been had on Mastodon and the conclusion tends to be that it usually works well enough to implement it, though it’s not 100%

Haha, I love your display name. Very pertinent to this context 🙌

Lysander Spooner 2y ago

Yes, but since delete requests are in the very baseline of spec I wouldn't call relays who willfully ignore it "Nostr relays", by definition, any more than if they broke protocol with a different JSON blob.

I guess all we can do is name, shame and avoid them.

Maybe, but nothing would prevent anybody, including the victim here, from using those relays in a nostr client without knowing that fact

Your mistakes are forever on nostr. Thread carefully

scary... BUT one of the features I REALLY would have liked, even in Twitter, is the ability to somehow correct typos etc. - this really will NEVER be possible?

Well, as someone already explained, it’s up to relays to accept delete or edit commands from clients. If you are connected to many relays, that possibility is frankly minimal (and someone can always store a copy of your original note anyway)

Guess I’m learning not to be scared of making mistakes 🫣

That’s the way! 😂

Nostr is an amazing place to start 🫣💜 Everyone here is so considerate 🤙⚡️

you should always fear a typo, because I always correct them ahaha - it's even in my bio!

Hahah 🤙

lol

I’m a proofreader—or at least I used to be before AI writers showed up in the scene—and I’m pretty relaxed using social media. I commit lots of typos now, especially because I’m typing on a phone

yeah i always try and read a message before pressing send, especially if there is no "edit" function - just the way i work - i want the message to say what my brain had in mind and not what my keyboard interpreted from my typing lol

💯 you’ll def get there ✨