Anyone started working on end to end encrypted group chats on #nostr which aren’t leaking metadata ? 200 million sats from HRF seems like worth it 👀
Discussion
On the other hand ... censorship resistance being the main goal of nostr kind of is the opposite of encrypted chat for a limited group. Nostr is for stuff that wants to be spread wide and far and making concessions for limited speech might go against that primary goal.
Same applies to DMs.
We have nips that suggest relays don't share all information with all clients equally which already is in the way of mirroring those events to other relays, thus making some relays points of centralization.
Other nips suggest ephemeral pubkeys that make it harder for relays to tell DOS attacks from legit communication.
I hope HRF only sponsor solutions that keep these issues in mind.
Well, I do understand it but having not leaking any DM metadata will make it stronger so I don’t see any problems to implementing censorship resistant features into the nostr!
Then how about not including nostr DM in the clients? Fiatjaf removed DM from branle for that reason. Use other tools for this. Nostr is not for DM.
I suggested a DM nip that would improve the situation and that would work for group chat, too, sort of but I also think nostr might just not be the best tool for encrypted communication. Better improve the public message use-case than to stress client devs with more and more standards that are inferior than other existing tools.
Fiatjaf can do whatever he wants lol and he sees things in his own way! And it doesn’t mean that if he did something everyone should follow the same way! I def can in the future encrypted group chats on nostr it just mush happen
I didn't mean to imply you couldn't do stuff that fiatjaf doesn't like but I would hope that it gets you to stop and think for a second about this angle of the problem.
I’m not too technical about encryption but what the problem with implementing it on here ?
Relays can't filter by content what is encrypted. So if you remove all the meta data including the sender, you won't know who could even detect spam in the message. Denial of service spam could post to channels that don't exist so to say and relays would store the garbage?
This content would be bound to relays that get paid for its storage probably by the content's author, which is not automatically wrong but still a few steps away from where we are so far.
How about integrating nostr:npub1exv22uulqnmlluszc4yk92jhs2e5ajcs6mu3t00a6avzjcalj9csm7d828 into the clients ?
POW/paid/personal relays would all be partial solutions to this problem.
Agreed
I can't say I haven't been thinking about it :-)
I think #nostr DMs in clients should just link out to #Simplex. Easy, solves the problem, and a simple fallback to nostr native DM with a privacy warning maintains full backwards compatibility with other clients and users who aren't configured for it.
I have thought about how to do it but didn’t get very far. I first thought there might be a way to derive child keys from your Nostr keys but my limited research suggests that’s not possible. Maybe generating bitcoin keys and tying each set of nostr keys to a child btc address?
Like I said, I didn’t get very far
