Discussion
And yet? Still the freest
Lol I've lived in America for a few years.
Definitely not the free-est.
Maybe top 100 though.
Name a freer country
Many non-UK European, Sth American, and even Australia are free-er than America...In that the people can do and say more without constriction.
I think the disagreement comes from your definition of freedom, which in America is focussed heavily on govt power and ability to own guns etc. Which I understand due to your genesis and history.
However, America is almost totally captured by finance and media, perhaps more so than any other developed country I am aware of or lived in. The truth is both your citizens AND your govt are captured.
A good example of this relates to your recent discussion about the Canadian truckers with nostr:nprofile1qqsd0uazmzmhwseeym3rjhf3txyjapreapc6sq8yq8cy07cg45tlx2cpp4mhxue69uhkyunz9e5k7tcpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7atfzq3, and how in America that didn't happen because the govt caved to the presence of guns. Except, the Amercian convoy DID HAPPEN.. You just weren't aware of it because your media didn't show it, and unlike in Canada the movement whithered quickly. Not because you had more freedom, but precisely because you didn't. Same issue today with the citizens rejecting US tax payer funding of Israel's crimes. Most other countries citizens gave been able to say and do a lot more about that than you can. Any US dissent is crushed.
What is freedom? And why is the definition limited to govt power, as opposed to being cnetrer on how citizens can and can't live?
I live better in Australia than I ever did in America, even if the govt is somewhat more tyrannical, because our other systems seem function much better.
So Australia is your answer? The place where you can go to prison for thought crimes?
For me it was the best place to live, all things considered.
English speaking, high quality of life, much more progressive Bitcoin policy etc.
One is much more likely to go to prison for criticising Israel in America than in Australia. Or hadn't you noticed that? Guess it's not on Fox News.
Is Australia the freest place on earth. No.
Here is a good summary though if one wanted a more objective measure of freedom than "I can have lots of guns" lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices
Fox News? What year do you think it is?
That's why it's funny.
Rogan and Carlson don't tell you that either though...nothing has materially changed.
Even right now, as we discuss, you are afraid to say the word Israel or discuss the US arrests related to speech around it. Similar "antisemitism" fees speech restriction bills have failed in Australia, but not in the US.
So...are you free?
The antisemitism bill is not law.
Iām also not afraid to criticize Israel.
Youāre mistaken on both counts.
I guess you haven't done so then because you agree with Israel?
But we digress...
The question was: are you more likely to go to jail for criticising Israel in America than in Australia?
You keep making bad faith assumptions about me.
Not a game Iām interested in playing.
Catch you another time my guy.
Not at all man, I'm just going by your posts.
Your main comment on the matter was that you don't care about Israel.
Very happy to be corrected at any time.
I don't mean any offense, but not caring about Israel when your country (the freest in the world) is its main financier, seems a bit unusual don't you think?
Maybe there is more to flesh out there.
Hereās where Iām at on Israel as someone who leans American isolationist.
AIPAC should be required to register as a foreign agent under the FARA. It openly lobbies the U.S. government in support of a foreign nation, and while it claims to be an American organization, its efforts clearly advance the interests of the Israeli state.
Under FARA any entity acting āat the order, request, or under the direction or controlā of a foreign principal and engaging in political activity must register. If AIPACās coordination with Israeli officials is substantive, this threshold may well be met and if it isnāt, perhaps the law should be updated to reflect modern influence operations.
Second, we should end all foreign aid to Israel. Israel is a wealthy, technologically advanced country with nuclear weapons, a thriving economy, and a robust military-industrial base. The $3.8 billion military aid formalized under the 2016 Memorandum of Understanding is corporate welfare for defense contractors and a subsidy for endless conflict. Let them fund their own wars.
Third, I donāt have a personal stake in Israel/Palestineās generations old religious and territorial dispute.
As an American taxpayer, I donāt want my money involved in a conflict that has zero direct benefit to the United States.
I want out of it financially, militarily, diplomatically.
Finally any federal antisemitism law that restricts speech is unconstitutional and un-American.
The First Amendment protects political speech even if it offends.
Criticizing Israel or Zionism is not hate speech; itās protected expression under the first amendment.
Respect.
It is absolutely true that Israel is a money laundering operation for the US military machine (US tax-payer money funnel), and that entire political and media landscape is therefore oriented around supporting it.
I also agree with everything else you said, but personally would go one step further and suggest that nations should try and pressure israel to stop mass murdering kids, but that this is not necessarily consistent with a libertarian isolationist stance (so I accept this is my personal bias).
Thank you for clarifying your position. Peace.
Maybe the concepts of freedom are personal, subjective even, and the only measure of freedom is whether you can be left to live as you wish, think and say what you want, while also being able to realise your dreams.
The last one is complex. If you are retarded, are you less free, or does the retardation not allow you to see your limitations, and thus you really are free? lol
That's why I say freedom is subjective in nature. Sure the less 'legal' or 'social' limitations on you is one measure, but I think it goes beyond that.
P.S. None of this is to say America is less free than X or Y ( unless they think it is themselves ofc )
Freedom is objective to me. Everything is objective to me.
Interesting. So how you feel about it is irrelevant?
Serious question - not a gotcha.
I try not to put a lot of emphasis on my feelings.
I read some works from a chap named Isiah Berlin, and went back to it several times.
It shifted how I think about freedoms, and the objectivity bit. I once would have said the same thing. Terribly complex, and fraught with danger.
Many ills in the world were sewn by people who believed to their core that what they deemed freedom, was universal.
Is your definition more objective than a basket of measurable metrics?