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Thinking about UBI lately. Kurzweil also predicts it quite soon.

With AI&Robotics changing the job market significantly, and fiat issues compounding on themselves, UBI seems a necessity(?) to avoid mass poverty/unemployment. Esp the way fiat debt lending has led the population to, en masses, be overleveraged and insolvent.

Is this (UBI) a positive or a negative then? Or just more or less an inevitable "solution" governments will use as a knee jerk?

Mass unemployment and poverty doesn't seem like a positive or even likely scenario.

The grocery rebate (canada's government handout for low income earners) and sliding tax bracket scale are already precursors to UBI in that it is "giving" the already financially vulnerable a break.

But UBI, napkin economics here, seems like it only perpetuates the issues of fiat central banking. So it's a net negative in the long run.

Thoughts?

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Discussion

stacktoshi 🚀 ∞/21m 2y ago

Give a man a fish…

nobody 2y ago

Yes. I agree. I just anticipate a lot of people not wanting or being able to know how to learn to fish.

Jeff Booth 2y ago

That is why a transition to Bitcoin matters so much. Prices “should” fall at the about the rate that technology reduces jobs.

In our existing system, we manipulate higher prices so that we can make government bigger to manipulate them more ( because people don’t have enough money to live b/c the prices were manipulated higher in first place)

Measuring in Bitcoin allows you to see the real prices of everything falling over time.

ROCKWOOD 2y ago

Jeff, hyperbitcoinization happening as quickly as possible is the most humanitarian and best way to achieve a Bitcoin standard.

We should drop the narrative of a parallel system continuing to systemically exploit everyone.

Think about it, rip the band aid off, put your hand on the stove, accelerate the stress. The longer fiat exists the more malignant it becomes and the less likely escape velocity will be met for hyperB.

The longer this takes the less likely hyperB happens; a slow transition is return free risk.

It’s hard to measure a system from within a system.

A c c e l e r a t e

Jeff Booth 2y ago

It does not matter what I want or what you want. The rate will be determined by 8 billion people understanding, then use of it as a medium of exchange, and both those will be driven faster by 2nd and 3rd layer applications that bring more value and/or reduce risk.

Ps - I suspect we’re much further out than you think bc of how slow minds change.

Pss - but it shouldn’t matter (except for wanting more people to understand how great it is) b/c each person can choose to live in that world regardless of what the rest of society does.

ROCKWOOD 2y ago

Bitcoiners4Trudeau > Bitcoiners4Pierre

If we want hyperB then JDaddy is our guy.

P.S.: Think of acceleration theory and do the game theory in this scenerio; imagine if the Canadian Truckers were LGBTQ / Drag Queens, what happens to ’the system’ under that scenario?

A c c e l e r a t e

ROCKWOOD 2y ago

I also think hyperB comes down to 1) a few billionaires understanding game theory and 2) a few bond normies realizing bonds are a Ponzi going to zero and are only propped up by their beliefs in an imaginary system.

Bitcoin isn’t complex math; it’s complex psychology and Stockholm syndrome like a crack-like addiction to the highest degree.

Mazeman 2y ago

Love your content.

Jeff Booth 2y ago

🙏

Toshi 2y ago

#[10] said by 2029 we will see hyper bitcoinisation. So I’m not worrying too much.

nobody 2y ago

Right. So UBI is just the next step to this artificial system.

When you say "measuring" in Bitcoin... I've often thought how would we non-artificially agree on how much 1 Bitcoin/a set amount of Satoshis could buy/produce in a system without fiat.

If we stopped measuring Bitcoin in US or CAD dollars... how would be come to a value price on a basket of goods?

I ran this through GPT and we came up with a value where the costs of mining was a contributing factor and so was the velocity and network participants. How else might we conceptualize a standard value? Scarcity also factors in.

techfeudalist 2y ago

Yes, govts will be forced to to UBI. The upcoming job loss will be substantial.

This is why the WEF is focused on “you’ll own nothing and be happy” combined with mobility restrictions like “15 minute cities” and health / carbon passports. They want to keep the masses subdued and non-violent.

Basically the big change is that humans will no longer be valued based on their labor hours. Why do you need to hire an employee when AI and robots will do the work?

Like in a 3rd world country where everyone hustles to survive, the upcoming shift will make everyone into entrepreneurs. The good news? You have access to AI and robots. The bad news? Few will hire you.

Most people are not hustlers and entrepreneurs. They prefer being told what to do. It’s going to be a rough transition for these folks.

I believe that govts will be forced to do UBI. Ultimately it will fail because govts always run out of other peoples’ money. The wealthy (bitcoiners) will flee as they are increasingly taxed and desperate citizens become violent as their standard of living drops.

nobody 2y ago

I can't argue with any of this. But it's grim. Ugh. Bitcoin and decentralized systems are so crucial.

Colin Sullivan 2y ago

Technology eliminates jobs and replaces them with opportunities. That said Canada already has UBI:

51% of new jobs created in Canada since the pandemic are government positions.

The telecom oligopoly, the big 5, crown corps… all "make work" operations to varying degrees.

nobody 2y ago

Interesting. That statistic is WILD. Hard to believe. Wow.

And right, gov and crow corps or semi crown corps is UBI via proxy. I believe in civics but make-work jobs and positions will likely increase as this all begins to unravel.

More of a 'soft' handout than just a flat cheque.

JenOntario 2y ago

I am worried about the grocery rebates! Print billions, create inflation that drives people to food banks and then slide in with a solution that you can only get from the government that created the problem. Sounds like a way to grow power and cultivate dependence to me.

jimmysong 2y ago

UBI will result in some serious hyperinflation.

Either you print the money to pay out UBI or you tax. Taxing is not going to go over well nor is cutting other programs. Both are political suicide in a fiat money system. Nobody respects hard choices when on opportunity cost-free money exists.

So what happens when you pay out UBI? They go and increase the supply of money. And this money doesn't go to any savings vehicles like the stock market or real estate. This goes straight into stuff like food, cars and rent. Which naturally means price increases for those things. Pretty soon, the prices have increased so much that UBI needs to increase to keep up. Rinse, repeat.

About 4-5 cycles later, you get hyperinflation.

nobody 2y ago

Thanks for your thoughts. So you think we won't experience UBI. Interesting.