Nostr Web Client

There won't be even close to a UTXO per person in the world

Making "easy" bitcoin custody tradeoffs instead of security is high-time preference

When you stretch this out, even LN is pushing it

"Most ppl's wallet" will likely be some bitcoin based ecash tokens

8 billion ppl, and growing. transacting everyday, with the lowest friction money known to man, hundreds of personal transactions a day, trillions of b2b micro transactions, billions of market trades, trillions of zaps...

Think longer term. A Sat will be worth much more than you think.

Keep it safe not "easy"

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Discussion

Bryan 2y ago

I agree with you. There will ‘never’ be 8 billion UTXOs. But is it good that mathematics exclude most of the world from ever owning a true bitcoin UTXO as opposed to a bitcoin derivative?

I know NVK, same story for a decade now. But it still worries me. Primarily because the future is so unpredictable. 🫂

DETERMINISTIC OPTIMISM 🌞 2y ago

Wealth distribution will definitely improve, the 99% will have more per capta if we end debasement. But the minority will always have the majority, that's a human condition. Ppl are not equal.

Bryan 2y ago

Seems accurate. 🤙

Kevin 2y ago

Wealth distribution should be appropriate to the value one provides, imo.

As Will & Ariel Durant put it in The Lessons Of History:

“Economic development specializes functions, differentiates abilities, and makes men unequally valuable to their group.”

#bitcoin is, in my view, the best shot we got for a level playing field.

Kevin 2y ago

The question is: What is appropriate and how do we define value?

The only solution I can think of is a free and open market.

That’s also why a common rule set, equal for all, is so important, imo.

🐢 2y ago

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Mark E. Jeftovic 2y ago

Do you ever worry that in a world where hyper-bitcoinization occurs, money velocity would drop to zero?

DETERMINISTIC OPTIMISM 🌞 2y ago

No, because ppl need to eat, shelter, cure diseases, invent the next thing, build bridges...

Joda 2y ago

Right, and in the microcosm of lightning and Nostr hyperzapification, you see the opposite-- people zapping (spending) constantly, even though they are spending their most precious and scarce resource.

Mark E. Jeftovic 2y ago

That is an excellent point - lightning really changed the game, and micropayments has been the Holy Grail of the internet since the mid-90’s.

It’s finally here.

Phil 2y ago

Nice and Kind Vic 2y ago

Sats will be worth much more than you think

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L 2y ago

Im going to figure out a cold storage when I finally manage to earn the famous 250k sats ration per each of my family members.

Nick 2y ago

“A Sat will be worth much more than you think.”

This breaks a lot of arguments. People don’t consider the imminent hyperbicoinization

Joda 2y ago

I hear a lot more people talking about #hyperbitcoinization than "hypo"-bitcoinization. You save in sats for decades and the price stays in a range, and adoption is slower than you think.

Not saying that's what will necessarily happen, but gold bugs have been declaring the death of the dollar for literally decades.

UNLICENSED MONEY TRANSMITTER 2y ago

isn't it leads to the same reason that gold centralized eventually?

i think it'll be reasonable to raise block-size periodically in the future after a pronounced fee market materialize and basic hardware allows much more

DETERMINISTIC OPTIMISM 🌞 2y ago

No, because at the end bitcoin is redeemable and accountable with little effort and remotely

UNLICENSED MONEY TRANSMITTER 2y ago

at what price? the fee might be higher than most people's entire stack

Joda 2y ago

Incentivizing more miners to come in, and faster chips to be developed, lowering the cost

47 2y ago

I’ll still zap that

Joda 2y ago

Why is it that lightning can't expand sufficiently? I don't understand what the practical limit is. If, in a few years, we have a $25 totally-automated, plug-in-and-forget it node for every household, why can't lightning be as fast and useful for everyone as it is for those of us using it now?

Blocktent 2y ago

The UTXO set is limited as well as our capacity to open channels while channel factories may help with the latter.

kidwarp 2y ago

1 sat ≈ $1 at least

Jason 2y ago

I would love to hear a detailed explanation why not everyone can have a utxo. Is it a protocol limit? I think I have 20 now myself, after some management to prepare for high fees.

dc0958ca... 2y ago

can we later easily allow fractional sats?