I think it will end in a large fraction of the total bitcoin stack being on the lightning network. It must result in that, don’t you think?
Discussion
It seems that way. But may be I’m missing something. I’m not sure how Bitcoin maximalists can parrot not your keys not your coins and support lightning.
Won’t that mean that the big lightning nodes will also own all that Bitcoin? So basically the public will hold no Bitcoin and it will be transferred into the large lightning operators. Someone is going to like that.
I got into Bitcoin so everyone could be their own bank.
Don’t you think that the blockchain trilemma is real? That you actually have to sacrifice speed on the base layer to gain security AND decentralization? And if so, why?!? To be stuck with a slow moving money? What have we gained if we don’t find ways to speed up things without sacrificing EVERYTHING?
But why not allow it to support the world’s population? It is a finite number. It’s not like the world’s population is growing. At least support weekly transfers or even monthly. Lightning is going to concentrate all Bitcoin into the hands of a few. Now you have the old banking system.
To be clear the issue here is Bitcoin rather than Lightning. It needs to support more transactions per block.
Exactly how many more transactions per block? 10 times more? 100 times more? And what is the COST of that?
What is the cost of not having it?
I’m shure that your intentions are good. But there are things you’ve not completely understood.
Even from a simple Moore’s law perspective, shouldn’t the block size be able to double every 18 months? If not, why?
Originally you needed a multi thousand dollar computer to run Bitcoin now you can run it on a $20 computer.
Worry about it if it becomes an issue and layering is not succesfull. For now 300k blocks would do just fine.
even if you have to use a LSP, your funds don’t need to be with a custodian. you can use funds on lightning from your own wallet w a LSP. ie phoenix, breez
it’s somewhat similar to using metamask with the default infura or whatever node
lurk more
Would you advise to keep large amounts in a non-custodial lightning wallet? Like say $100k?
yes
and similar to if you were managing $100k of BTC on the mainchain, i’d say invest 0.1% of that into setting up your own node. bank yourself
So the future of Bitcoin is lightning, and only lightning, because there is no way a billion people can access their Bitcoin wallet?
Didn’t realise this when I bought Bitcoin in 2013.
We should empty our Bitcoin wallets now because there is no way you’ll be able to access them in the future?
And you do realise that all that BTC will be held by large lightning providers? Concentrated into a few, which are essentially banks, sitting on almost all of the Bitcoin.
do your research
use bitcoin on the mainchain, no-ones stopping you.
if you don’t like lightning, and you want to see a nostr client that only uses standard bitcoin transactions, feel free to make one and propose a NIP.
nostr doesn’t enforce the use of LN in anything, so instead of crying, make something that suits what you want out of nostr
My point is that if 1 billion people adopt Bitcoin the network won’t handle it. It’s not about whether I want to use it, it’s whether there is capacity for a typical social media audience which is typically in the hundreds of millions if not billions.
wrong, lurk moar
Okay I’ll be generous. Let’s say Bitcoin can do 500k tx per day. It would take 5 years for each of 1 billion people to make their first transaction.
Are you saying I am wrong?
lurk moar, you’ll figure it out
Here’s another question for you, you are happy keeping $100k+ on the lightning network which doesn’t have a proof of work immutable ledger?
do you understand how LN works? 😂
I’ve been in Bitcoin for years, completely new Lightning. You aren’t giving me any confidence whatsoever I would want to store my funds there.
It is more insecure (more custodial wallets, more complex node’s, etc…), but its purpose is to serve for daily payments and therefore maintain a lower balance in your wallet. Anyway I agree 👍🏻
Yeah lightning is less secure but it is pretty damn secure. The only way you’d ever have your funds stolen is if your channel counterparty happens to collude with 51% of the hashpower for weeks to censor your justice transaction. Pretty unlikely imo
Yeah, you're wrong and I have a feeling that you want to stay that way because looking at your notes tells me that you just hate Bitcoin.
If you want to know how computer network protocols scale (all of them) then look at the internet. It couldn't scale at its base layer so it needed a second layer and a third, and so on. We are at 7 layers now.
But, again, I suspect you are just here to hate bitcoin and I further suspect that you're just a fucking shitcoiner so fuck straight off.
The future of bitcoin is drivechains after we activate BIP300/301. Check out https://truthcoin.info/blog/thunder
I would not. Keep that in cold storage. In the future there will be fully validating lighting signing hsms. then it will be quite safe.
