Most people who onboard onto Bitcoin will be relying on 3rd parties. There's space for both. The key is optionality. You have the option to do it yourself with minimal upfront costs

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The only reason why Bitcoin was created was to eliminate third parties.

It was actually to reduce reliance on third parties, that often betray the trust of their customers, so they can be more easily held accountable. Custodians will always exist.

it was made to be a p2p electronic currency.

scaling with something which does not work well for a normie without a third party is completely against what BTC was made for.

The p2p part is the computer network of nodes, an onchain tx is not p2p; miners are not your peers.

Lightning however is p2p.

In any event, the point was TRUSTED third parties, not third parties to begin with.

Not entering the discussion or making any point, just clearing op the lingo

Well in that case Lightning isnt necessarily p2p either. The hops between you and someone else you are paying isn't your peer. Unless you're directly opening a channel with that person which, let's be real, isn't the case for the vast majority of these transactions.

Those other hops are systemically on the same level as you; they are equals/peers.

That's why I said not necessarily. Depends if you're using your own node.

No. You said that it depends if you have a direct channel, which is wrong. You don't need a direct channel; intermediate hops/nodes are also peers.

It does depend on if you controll a node in the first place, yes, ofcourse.

In that case the difference just seems pedantic

Bitcoiners these days

"Onboarding through third parties"

"Privacy from fellow men more than enough"

"ETF's are so much more convenient than self-custody"

"Strategic reserve will make us all rich (in fiat)"

Bitcoiners are a disgrace. They completely lost the plot. Crazy how little fiat NGU bribing it took to get over former ideals. We're not even at $100k which represents a mere $40k in inflated fiat terms and people are sacrificing it all for the Mammon.