Genuine, non-hater discussion topic incoming.

Bitcoiners like to say that Bitcoin is fully uncensorable, that governments can't fully take it down. The problem I see is that even though the *technology* can't be taken down, the means by which people can enter into using said technology can easily be cut off, and not just via KYC. While there's still the peer-to-peer aspect, that also could easily be targeted through surveillance, and unless people start to become fully anonymous (not realistic for most), that's not something you can stop.

On top of that fact, there's a lot of KYCed Bitcoin out there, and the problem with that is that if it's KYCed, it makes it pretty trivial for governments to surveil wallet addresses and transactions.

In this way, wouldn't it be wiser to use a privacy coin if you're okay with KYC? Also, if the legal system ever decides to make it virtually impossible to obtain Bitcoin and you're going to go the route of "privately" obtaining it, then you're not going to get very far if they can surveil all of that information.

To reiterate, I'm not a hater, not by a long shot. Aside from my personal issues with KYC keeping me from buying, I believe in the technology, and I think it's got some serious potential to be the basis for economic change. I'm also not specifically a Monero guy, even though I think that it has some MAJOR benefits. But the problem with Bitcoin's lack of privacy, as well as the fact that KYC is virtually unavoidable, make it hard for me to believe in the maxi opinion that Bitcoin is completely unstoppable. Again, I do agree that the technology itself can't be shut down, but if you can't legally obtain it and you can't truly obtain it privately, then I don't see how it's unstoppable.

Just some thoughts I had. I'm genuinely curious what some of you guys think about this subject.

#asknostr #Bitcoin #privacy #Monero

Globalism is a popular idea now, but there’s still around 200 independent national governments on Earth each greedy in their own way. Thanks to this competition, you’ll find a way to stack somewhere. Govs want independence too, and bitcoin is the only thing that’ll offer it. Else you’ll always have some empire to pay rent to.

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But the problem is that many people neither can, nor want to leave their country just for Bitcoin. What about those people?

I’d separate “can” from “want” first, as those branch off in different directions.

without “want” there’s not much you can do. someone else wanting it more will take your share.

if you want but can’t that’s a problem to solve for. all I can say that the proof of work will pay off

Sure, but most people would fall equally into the can't and don't want categories.

Perhaps. I like to start thinking from all 8.2 billion people. As great as bitcoin is, it does not do anything on its own, it’s all human activity.

Some people will help grow the network, but most likely won’t. Being aware of the ledger is already a contribution.

It’ll be there when anyone needs or wants it.

Well, part of the problem is security (and I don't mean software security). If Bitcoin is to be mass adopted as a primary currency, people need to be able to trust that switching to it will allow them to continue to live life without being considered a criminal and active threat. If it's as simple as preventing people from buying it or spending it on anything other than P2P transactions, that doesn't give security and stability to anyone who isn't a hardcore anarchist maxi.

No one is going to hand it to them. You can’t fight against government overreach and expect it to be nice to you too.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Benjamin Franklin

Fiat gotten us into deep shit, there’s no easy way out now.

Also, I don't feel like that Ben Franklin quote is particularly applicable here. If Bitcoin were outlawed, people who choose family over code aren't choosing safety above freedom, they're choosing to live for their loved ones rather than gamble on buying something that is easily trackable, oj the off chance that hodling will fix the issue in their lifetime.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the argument would be for using Bitcoin over privacy coins in a situation like that. I guess that's one of the main arguments I'm making here, if you boil things down.

Bitcoin won’t help you break the law if that’s what you mean. You’ll have to move to a more favorable jurisdiction or give up capital gains entirely. Monero wins you privacy, but not much more wealth than just using fiat.

Hmm yeah, that's what I was assuming. So, in other words, if someone can't/doesn't want to pack up everything and leave their home for Bitcoin if it becomes actively targeted, they shouldnt bother unless the law protects Bitcoin use, yes?

You could pledge allegiance to your local mafia, but yeah for normies it be over in that part of the world.

do U have a local mafia?

It’s basically just our government 😇 the perks of being a tiny country. Doing any business you soon know everyone

where if U care 2 share?

I’m not hard to doxx 😀 Google might tell you. An undisclosed eastern european country with all the leet hackers