Nostr Web Client

#asknostr

Imagine you have a hardware wallet with no passphrase, and it holds existing funds. Then you add a passphrase. Is the following correct?

1. The passphrase wallet will be new and empty

2. The original wallet still exists with all funds, and can be accessed by leaving the passphrase field blank (in Sparrow, or whatever watching wallet) when opening the wallet.

3. You can create a passphrase in your watching wallet without needing to reconnect the HWW, assuming you have previously imported the xpub.

Thanks in advance 🙏

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

daum3ns 1y ago

not sure about 3 but 1 and 2 are correct... the passphrase creates a complety new wallet..

boston wine 1y ago

Thank you!

johnny 1y ago

I would prefer to move my funds to the new wallet with a passphrase. It would make me feel safer.

daum3ns 1y ago

agree

Sovran Systems 1y ago

The BIP 39 passphrase is next level. If done right with a very very very secure computer, IMHO, you do not need a HW.

boston wine 1y ago

Interesting point. I’m mostly just looking for a simple way to create a new “account” to separate and allocate different funds

Sovran Systems 1y ago

Got ya. Yes, the BIP 39 method will work for that.

boston wine 1y ago

🙏🤝🫡

Satoshi Coffee Co. 1y ago

I’m 99% sure the xpubs are different once you add a passphrase to the seed. You will typically need to reimport the new xpub depending on the wallet…

seedwords = xpub1

seedwords+passphrase1 = xpub2

seedwords+passphrase2 = xpub3

etc.

boston wine 1y ago

Thank you! Will test 🫡

Joe⚡ 1y ago

🤙

Ruminant Llama 1y ago

I'm pretty sure every passphrase acts as an additional seed word. Therefore completely different derived key.

So nr1: a new empty account is accessed

Ruminant Llama 1y ago

Obviously without entering the passphrase you still can access the funds, if that wasn't clear already 😉

boston wine 1y ago

Thanks! So basically hit “enter” in my desktop wallet software to see the original wallet + old funds?

GHOST 1y ago

Yes, yes, and no. Add a passphrase and you are spinning up a completely different wallet. New xpub and no way to discern that it has any connection to the original wallet

boston wine 1y ago

Thanks - so do I need to reconnect the hww to the watching wallet if I want to set a new passphrase? As the additional word would be stored in the hww 🤔

GHOST 1y ago

No. The watching wallet would still only watch the wallet whose xpub was entered for it. The HWW would generate the new wallet with the new passphrase and then you would have to export that new xpub to a software watching wallet

boston wine 1y ago

Thank you! That makes a lot more sense. Finally feel like I’ve got this one figured out 🫡

. 1y ago

Hardware wallets don't hold funds.

Seed that signs for uxtos is valid without passphrase

Adding a passphrase to that seed creates a separate set of entropy that is distinct, ie there will be no uxtos in that wallet

There is no way for the computer with the watch only to know your new passphrase xpub if it wasn't imported

boston wine 1y ago

Thank you for the semantic correction — you’re right and I should be more precise 🤝

If I understand correctly, I must set the passphrase directly on the HWW (which will actually hold the additional word) rather than in Sparrow, Electrum, etc.?

Thinking it through from this perspective, that does make perfect sense.

TKay 1y ago

1 and 2 are correct.

3 I don’t think so, unless I’m misreading you. Every wallet + x passphrase is a completely new wallet that needs to be imported.

So if you have one hardware wallet, you will need to “restore” a seed to get access to any other wallet you have, with or without a passphrase.

JP 1y ago

So basically, if the HWW gets destroyed, you have to buy a new one? Or can you get around with the seed + passphrase in a software wallet?

TKay 1y ago

You can of course restore it in a software wallet. But entering wallets generated by a hardware wallet into a software wallet immediately lowers their status from cold storage to hot storage.

If you have a watch only wallet, and you lose your HWW (your signing device) you won’t be able to send bitcoin.

Unless, you either get a new HWW and restore your seed or input the seed into the software wallet and make it Hot - Which is absolutely not recommended if it has a lot of bitcoin.

JP 1y ago

Yeah, as a temp measure I meant.

Passphrase is definitely a great security feature.

boston wine 1y ago

You’d need a new device (or import the seed from backup to your hot wallet — but don’t do that) in order to sign a transaction

boston wine 1y ago

Thanks, this is what I’m thinking, too. The “new” seed (ie 24 + 1 words) should be on the hww, not the watching wallet

₿oddei 1y ago

1&2 is correct

3 don’t know, depends on wallet SW

boston wine 1y ago

Thanks!

JP 1y ago

Here’s a great primer on the subject: https://unchained.com/blog/bitcoin-singlesig-passphrase-vs-multisig/

boston wine 1y ago

Ty this is very helpful!