Subnostr

Fees were always going to get very high and eventually be sustained at very high levels. This is only a preview of an inevitable outcome. The overwhelming majority of transactions (and all normal “payments”) will occur on higher layers, Lightning is just one part of that. It’ll include Lightning, Fedimint, liquid, Ark (likely), some entirely novel things built with BitVM, and likely other unique designs after CTV or basic covenants are implemented (next soft fork).

These periods are necessary to get us to integrate the available tools and start testing what does and doesn’t work, and to what degree.

Scaling is a goal without a conclusion. It will just keep improving forever, and it will constantly stay right behind what demand is, so it’ll basically feel like this in a series of never ending cycles, imo.

YunusAtSea⚡️🌊 2y ago

Right, I understand this moving forward. it makes sense in the long term for operability of the network.

But does that mean that Bitcoin is not actually a good savings vessel for the average person? Are we deceiving average Joe by encouraging to buy some "just in case it takes off" when in reality that little something they buy might well turn into dust?

If such a large portion of savings are getting eaten up in consolidation of DCA bought UTXO's. It means that the average buy shouldn't be lower than 100$ and I would argue that any lower than 300$ is suboptimal.

It starts to look like an elitist club of its own.

I know i'm playing the part of the doomer today but i think it's sometimes necessary to develop real confidence in the system we are creating.

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Discussion

B.O.P 2y ago

You’re free to stack Liquid BTC and or Lightning BTC if you’re worried your stack will constitute as dust one day. Nobody is forcing anybody to stack on L1, but it is the most secure. It’s not really an elitist club because this would suggest it’s impossible for the normie to get in. If one provides value they can be paid in BTC, there is no other prerequisite so I can’t get behind calling it “elitist” either

Ryan 2y ago

🎯

Stack using lightning & liquid until 1M sats, the transfer on chain. I can't do large amounts when I purchase usually, but I can still make sizable utxo for stacking.

YunusAtSea⚡️🌊 2y ago

Yes, this seems to be a good solution to suggest for newcomers... perhaps I will have to start recommending lightning as the starting point.

YunusAtSea⚡️🌊 2y ago

That's a fair comment. Though I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending others to Stack on anything but main chain due to the security aspects and LN pretty much still being in beta. But I guess tough times need workarounds. Most of these solutions are a bit beyond the newcomer though and will definitely slow down the pace of individual adoption.

I think there will be a lot of hurt people this bull run. Those who didn't manage UTXO's and newcomers realising these difficulties to entry and getting salty about it. We need a huge jump forward in usability before we get mass adoption.

Gradually then suddenly.

B.O.P 2y ago

I think for most investment level people looking to store their money in bitcoin instead of bonds, that’s no dust. We’re talking about 10,000s of dollars per person in the US.

Maybe for the average person in other lower income countries it wouldn’t be bad to teach them L2s first. Naturally we are in a time of discovery and not everything we do will be the right decision at the time, but we will learn as we go and look to find the best UX for the job depending on the persons circumstances

YunusAtSea⚡️🌊 2y ago

Yes it's very true. However i'm thinking about this from the perspective of someone trying to orange pill "average Joe" for their own benefit. It seems lightning is maturing week by week so maybe it is time to start recommending people to start there 👌🏼 it certainly allows for a more "cash like experience" just need to caviat the info with the security aspects.