Nostr Web Client

Stop what you’re doing and listen to nostr:npub1sn0wdenkukak0d9dfczzeacvhkrgz92ak56egt7vdgzn8pv2wfqqhrjdv9's speech from the Bitcoin 2024 conference.

He makes some very good points about Bitcoin’s lack of privacy, how exchanges have data about their users & share them with governments & why AI will make linking transactions much easier.

He also explains why metadata is enough to construct an entire story about your daily habits – they don’t have to know the specifics of what you buy and why, they already see with whom you are transacting and building a profile.

I can’t believe people don’t talk about this more!!!

https://youtu.be/f3NBhSXtE5g?si=KFAJkxhn7yd2NnhZ

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Discussion

OT 1y ago

I see monero bugs talk about it. And I do believe that AI will make tracing users on the base layer easier for authorities, but also easier for users. This should simply drive more lightning adoption for everyday transactions and hopefully encourage more ordinary users to buy noKYC sats and conjoin.

ede3d957... 1y ago

Monero will not be enough without meta data protection.

AI that has access to all sorts of meta data (e.g. Microsoft 'Recall') will be able to route around your privacy. Ditch Windows, ditch iOS, ditch Google.

What makes you think LN is fit for the job?

You need much more than a private means of payment.

Graphene + Tor or i2p + your own node as a minimum configuration.

Everything based on proprietary source code or someone else's computer (cloud) or unencrypted IS already compromised.

Monero can only help you so far.

OT 1y ago

What makes you think that Monero won't also be gamed?

I don't see how its possible for AI to see inside every unannounced channel. Lets not forget that here are hops between different channels too.

The other suggestions about using Graphine and ditching windows/google I agree

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Sounds good in theory, but vast majority don't use unannounced channels. Ironically it also destroys your plausible deniability *if* caught. You're also still using a transparent base layer to move into and eventually settle on (force close/justice transactions) and most users HODL on the base layer. I think BOLT12 helps a lot with privacy, but there are fundamental issues and natural incentives with LN that I'm not sure you can change that directly or indirectly reduce privacy and sovereignty.

I do agree that offchain transactions, but on an encrypted base layer, is probably ideal for the best possible privacy

OT 1y ago

This chart says otherwise.

How would they track the LN payments happening between opening and closing the channel? You could have channels open for years too.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Using tor =/= unannounced channels

"...receivers can try and doxx senders in other ways. Like, what IP address did they use when they requested an invoice.

As for the onchain footprint, if someone is watching your addresses, they will see that your funds were used to open a channel with another node. They will also see the name of the node you opened the channel to. When you close the channel, two outputs are created. Each node gets an output. One output is usually larger than the other simply because channels rarely close in a perfectly balanced state.

However, most nodes will just reopen more channels using the outputs from channel close transactions. Therefore, if we wait long enough, the odds are high that my node will use my output to create another channel. Once my node does this, I've essentially doxxed that my node."

Not impossible to avoid, but most users won't do all these things.

Fred Johnston 1y ago

Everyone needs to relax.

Fedimint

It's coming and Snowden should know more about it.

Sourcenode 1y ago

How does fedimint solve this issue?

Fred Johnston 1y ago

Privacy. You can read up here. https://fedimint.org/

It's worth the effort to study.

If you would rather watch a 7 minute video (lacks details IMO and may make things more confusing if you don't have the basics) here it is.

https://youtu.be/EerV92GFMBc?si=qM6XLk4VrazNGuBv

Vlad, Bitcoin Takeover Podcast 1y ago

Sir, that’s a custodian. Banking with extra steps.

Fred Johnston 1y ago

Okay, you can look at it that way. But it's decentralized, community based - it's not centrally controlled and it's also private.

When you say 'custodian' it would imply central control.

Fred Johnston 1y ago

Adding this. Also, left out the coming self custody - which could be a monster addition allowing world access to self custody of #Bitcoin (as we all know all 8 billion people can't self custody on chain).

Sourcenode 1y ago

This is the most important issue in the bitcoin space. KYC threatens fungibility and mining pool centralization threatens censorship.

If these issues aren't resolved BTC is the CBDC.