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You cannot trade a worthless money for a valuable service. There is value in savings. Money has to first be a store of value, before it can mature to become a medium of exchange and ultimately a unit of exchange.

Bitcoin has already accomplished step 1. If it proves viable as a medium of exchange it will take over everything else.

Russo 2y ago

I dont agreed you that, if that was rigth we will never abandoned fiat money with gold standards.

Jose Sammut 2y ago

Fiat evolved from gold coinage. Fiat had value because the gold notes had value, because gold had value. The evolution of money was not driven by value but by logistics. Each step was enforced by the government's mandate. People were promised the fundamental qualities of money would not be changed.

Executive Order 6102 required all persons to surrender gold coins, bullion, and certificates to the Federal Reserve.

Nixon removed US from a gold standard and immediately enacted price controls. Economic Stabilization Act of 1971.

These were not the actions of the free market.

In any case, markets clearly find value in fiat. A lot of money is locked up in savings, money markets, bonds, etc. In countries with bad money, people still trust it to hold value until they are done with their shopping or can exchange it for a better currency. They would not accept it otherwise. They would replace it for something better in a heartbeat if given the chance.

3e

Deleted Account 2y ago

xiangcai 2y ago

wait what?

Russo 2y ago

my honest opinion

xiangcai 2y ago

well in that case, we can talk a little about it.

the modern financial system is built on the concept that money can be created out of thin air, which had become the root cause of most problems as we probably agree upon.

Austrian economics believe that money should be governed be natural forces instead of a bunch of people in central banks, with characteristics of hard money ie scarcity, durability, fungibility, divisibility and scalability etc., like gold and silver, as we probably agree upon.

industrialized modern world needs money to be transferred digitally in speed of light, anonymously in protection of privacy and permissionlessly in resistance of censorship, apparently the fiat currencies have none of these above, as we probably agree upon.

then there's the first cryptocurrency invented by Satoshi Nakamoto, his ambitious goal was to fix those problems mentioned above, and more importantly, he disappeared, after bitcoin became an unstoppable force, which is the most important significance of bitcoin versus all other cryptocurrencies.

bitcoiners take it as the perfectly engineered commodity money governed by natural laws ie the 2nd thermo dynamics, bitcoiners believe in Bitcoin Standard as we believe in the commodity monetary system.

as for other cryptos, they're not simply fixing the broken money insure, instead they creat more credit money out of thin air in name of decentralization, which differs very little with the government backed fiat, and tons of rug pulls have already shown this way.

stupleb 2y ago

Enjoy your shitcoins, may they rug ever in your favor.

Russo 2y ago

My money, my rules!

If i get rugged is entirely my responsability.

stupleb 2y ago

You just said you didn't have money, that you have shitcoins. Which is it, money or shitcoins?

Jose Sammut 2y ago

Monero is decentralized, it won't rug.

stupleb 2y ago

Glad you admit it is a shitcoin. You might want to look at little more at its origins. Then learn about money.

Jose Sammut 2y ago

I don't know anything about it's origins, and I'm not exposed so I don't really care.

nostr:nevent1qqs2ycw4nkvt24knqmhhqw4skvvnj9vd3cmdgly9f2jknjdv0tvdqkcpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzqf95tyq2jtaug5nue7t4h4qknz8ygnrwfk0nvnz3tpn87pmky0lzqvzqqqqqqyr0ug0s

Geez this got aggressive.

stupleb 2y ago

They do say that ignorance is bliss.

Mr. Sat Stacker 2y ago

Unless you are 100% all in on bitcoin.... you are shitcoining at some level. My goal is to be less of a shitcoiner in 2024, and move closer to all in on bitcoin.

Diversity into crypto shitcoins might be like finding gems on the pink sheets. Most are rug pulls.

Russo 2y ago

Monero is a shitcoin?

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

Sure!!

Russo 2y ago

Why?

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

There are many reasons that make monero a shitcoin, but I think a weird algorithm so called, ASIC resistance algorithm is the most critical reason.

Russo 2y ago

RandomX is an algorithm that will take ASIC resistance one step further. It is designed to be ASIC resistant by using random code execution and memory-hard techniques to prevent specialized mining hardware from dominating the network. Because RandomX is optimized for general-purpose CPUs, the network will become more decentralized and egalitarian in the distribution of block rewards. ASICs are the clear target of RandomX, but since it’s optimized for CPUs, GPUs will also suffer.

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

It doesn't make sense at all. Mining machines are just about efficiency not type. You can get sha256 by hand. Old version ASIC miner is worse than new version ASIC.

CPU mining doesn't make network decentralized. Instead, it can make network more centralized. Imagine Monero's value going up and then, Google data center and AWS mines Monero. Big-tech already has huge CPU power.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

What has more potential for decentralization? Limited supply ASICs that cost thousands of dollars to even get started or the ubiquity of CPUs that every pleb has all around us?

There are 2 major ASIC manufacturers that have a stranglehold over new supply, KYC your ass, and know exactly why you're using them. You get the sloppy seconds after they've been using them for a year if you're lucky. Then your non existent hash power is eclipsed by corporate mining farms and two mining pools that make up ~58% of blocks

The situation is not very different for you

Oh and those pools are already starting to censor, nice

https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-mining-pool-f2pool-acknowledges-ofac-transaction-censorship-backpedals-after-community-backlash/

m4dire0701 2y ago

Explain me how you can compete with expensive ASIC machines in btc mining with your regular desktop or notebook. Monero solves this problems cleverly

Jose Sammut 2y ago

Bitcoin doesn't award participation trophies.

Markets optimize for efficiency not equity.

m4dire0701 2y ago

Which makes a cryptocurrency secure is the process of mining, the more people participate the more secure network is. The market cap is irrelevant on this issue

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

Monero guys don't understand #Bitcoin at all😅

SatsMan 2y ago

Why anyone would get into #altcoin 😉

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

for sure

SatsMan 2y ago

#ETH unlimited supply. It’s like a joke 😉

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

Dynamic block size is one of the reasons that makes Monero a shitcoin. It makes normies difficult to run a node.

Russo 2y ago

Running a monero node isn't more difficult than running a Bitcoin node.

Gildong.Hong 2y ago

It's because majority people know that Monero is a shitcoin. The more people accept Monero, the harder to run a node.

Larger block sizes have a negative impact on not only storage size but also on verification time.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

So your argument is it will be so successful and popular that it will be hard to run a node?

Or do you believe Monero will remain an irrelevant niche?

If the latter then why are you worried about the size growing too large? (not even considering consumer tech is not static and protocol scalability improvements - a strength bitcoin doesn't really have)

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

What about a coin with high tx fees that will become infeasibly expensive in the future, zero privacy, and lacked real world fungibility.

Expensive, surveillable, and taintable. Sounds difficult for normies to use.

Jose Sammut 2y ago

From what I understand, it doesn't scale. Even if it could've scaled, it hasn't, so it doesn't matter.

If I don't understand it, but that's not a criticism on me, that's a criticism on Monero. Network effects.

It will never decentralize. It's insanely difficult to audit. The more it gets used, the harder it is to audit.

Monero is what it is. I don't mind it, but this is all it will ever be. This is all it was ever intended to be.

CPU mining lol. 🤦‍♂️

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

So your argument is that you believe Monero is and will remain an irrelevant niche? Then why tf are you worried about the size growing too large???

Na, you don't understand because you put zero effort into learning any of these things, which is fine, but you still want to give your uninformed opinion. Thats on you not Monero.

You audit Monero exactly like you audit Bitcoin. You rely on your node to do it. No Bitcoiner verifies for themselves the hundreds of millions of transactions inside 800,000+ blocks. What about every ten minutes?No, they just run a node. Same implementation risk. So, what is the real world advantage or difference? It's verification larping

Jose Sammut 2y ago

I'm not exposed, why would I be worried?

The post said there will be other monies alongside Bitcoin. A niche crypto token used for anonymous transfers is not monies alongside Bitcoin. It's a drop in the ocean.

I think Monero is cool to use but it's a bad investment. That was and remains my point. The network effects will never shift in its favour. It will never outperform, I doubt it will even grow at all.

It's not hard to audit because the Maths is hard. It's hard to audit because there's no transparent public ledger. I'm sure you could get round to understanding it eventually, I'm sure you'd detect a fault eventually, but eventually is not really good enough.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Your argument is incoherent with what you're saying.

You can't simultaneously think Monero will always be a niche irrelevant crypto and also think it will grow too large and popular for people to run a node. It's one or the other.

I've never told anyone to invest in Monero or any promises of get rich quick schemes. You'll rarely see any Monero users saying save or invest in Monero. You're supposed to use it just like you're saying.

Ok, then tell me, how do YOU personally audit Bitcoin?

I bet all you do is rely on your node to do that for you.

You aren't even taking advantage of Bitcoin's transparent public ledger that you love so much. That's why I called it LARPing earlier. You do nothing different from a Monero user relying on their node to audit.

Jose Sammut 2y ago

I never said it will grow too large. I just said it wouldn't work if it did.

Jose Sammut 2y ago

Also... 21 million, Halving party mid April, see you at San Torini

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Ha! Doubt I'll be able to go

But place looks like a good time!

OT 2y ago

Cause this

Russo 2y ago

So only price matters? LOL

OT 2y ago

No

Just proving a point that storing anything for long periods of time trends to zero in bitcoin terms.

But talk more about $5 fees please

Russo 2y ago

I didn’t question that fact, my point isn’t that.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Average $5 fees *right now* guarunteed to rise as demand climbs for limited blockspace

Not even bringing up the issues of zero privacy and poor real world fungibility

Unless you plan on never using Bitcoin (neutering p2p electronic cash the literal title of the white paper) those are all serious problems

The choices aren't Bitcoin or Monero only. You can save with one and spend with the other. Don't save with Monero if you think that trend will continue. No one is forcing you to hold large amounts for long periods of time. That's your weird false dichotomy you can't get past.

OT 2y ago

So you hold more bitcoin than monero right?

You say lightning isn't private & so you'll pay those on chain fee every time you swap into monero

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

It's not that I think it's not private. It's not private. But lets not continue that because you're arguing against lightning devs telling you it's not so you're too far gone for me to convince about that.

No, just...

1. Onramp to Monero directly. Easy.

OR

2. Swap enough Bitcoin for you to use for a few months or X amount of time you're comfortable with. You're paying one onchain bitcoin transaction for 100s of transactions. Saving a lot of money by doing that do the math.

7e

nobody 2y ago

That’s not a true statement.

Investing in legal assets besides BTC isn’t shitcoining. Stop trying to move the goalposts BitBoy.

Shitcoining is buying/promoting illegal, centralized, unregistered security tokens that will & have REKT people.

You do you. HFSP.

M✨️ 2y ago

https://video.nostr.build/dd5cf4d0bf4fe69209a656771206f52a48b69d78811cd0a5eba2bde245b221bd.mp4

Mr. Sat Stacker 2y ago

Legal assets:

Stable coins

Gold etfs

Physical gold

USTs

Stocks

Rental real estate

Others

All very capable of big time rug pulls.

7e

nobody 2y ago

That’s NOT the point and I hope to God you know that.

If not, you’re a fucking moron and I hope not.

Russo 2y ago

so dumb answer

7e

nobody 2y ago

English please Jose. I don’t speak moron.

Russo 2y ago

moron is all you speak

086564b2... 2y ago

If people only got a taste of Monero they would see why it is so great and so easy to use. Even a child could use it and be safer/private VS trying to be safe/private with bitcoin.

Monero is designed to survive the most powerful aggressors. (Governments)

And its much easier to use.. no force closures of channels, no channel balancing. Just simple.. just safe and private.

Monero is used everyday. Nodes are so easy. TOR is your friend also.

NOPUMPFAKEZ‼️ 2y ago

086564b2... 2y ago

BTC and XMR are not shitcoins. All the others are. I am a privacy and freedom person.

NOPUMPFAKEZ‼️ 2y ago

What is the method of consensus for XRP?

SMS 2y ago

How did that work out?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/movies/chadwick-boseman-dead.html

SMS 2y ago

#MRC

🎚️

I think a #mainvolume issued license is required to think. I think I am European, Swedish in fact. I think I am created by Sina for #mainvolume

GoldenSun777 2y ago

For example:

Dodgecoin is a shitcoin, coins without any reason are considered shitcoins. (There are more than thousands of them)

Monero truly tries to protect privacy, in a world full of agenda2030 npc's, so therefore I wouldn't consider it a shitcoin... definitely not

🏴💯

Though I haven't use it yet.

c9

nobody 2y ago

Yea but why? You can just transact P2P with bitcoin. As long as it doesn’t touch the fiat rails, it’s Gucci

Russo 2y ago

Because privacy matters 👀🤣

c9

nobody 2y ago

With Manero? Lololool

Russo 2y ago

yes

72

KentuckyChicken 2y ago

Every single transaction is traced. Using Bitcoin as a store of value is great but I would prefer to do all transactions in monero.

c9

nobody 2y ago

NOH

Russo 2y ago

yes, me too

JoySun 2y ago

This post brought all the boys to the yard.

nostr:nevent1qqszc9g2p59jsl64qwj85wp90mrz4v88472nj36sxq8a97rhgp6xtxgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyphq586g227glfptspravz5pjvxc3yzv50e2eha4hpqn4wxf73zw2qcyqqqqqqgmee74a

Ronin 2y ago

Yes there will be many cryptos and many Fiat currencies and all the other assets, but Bitcoin will reign supreme as store of value, the ones storing in other cryptos will be loosing against btc and be poorer. For spending it's a bit indifferent what you choose, but as more people realize btc is the best savings tech they won't accept other cryptos bc they will likely have to swap to btc, and no one wants extra hops.

OT 2y ago

You get good enough privacy with bitcoin, & its getting better.

You don't need monero.

Russo 2y ago

I know if i want i can make the workaround i can get some privacy, but as a spending tool i prefer Monero 10x.

Its a ready to go, privacy by default with low fees, what i need more?

I don´t need to be checking if the fees are high or low, and see if i do everystep rigth to have my privacy granted.

Why would i use Bitcoin for that if i can use monero without any workaround?

OT 2y ago

Private LN channels have been working well for me, but you can do what you like.

Russo 2y ago

Thats the beauty of free markets, anyone can do what fits better themselves

OT 2y ago

Yep

The problem I have is that some monero bugs act like they don't hold any bitcoin. And some might not!

Also, distracting newbies to monero because it has better privacy is bad form. Its similar to the XRP is faster BS. Isolating 1 aspect like its the only thing that matters.

Russo 2y ago

Thats what maximalism does to people..

I never said that i dont have bitcoin, i have.

And i never said that Monero is a Bitcoin substitute because it isn’t.

My point is, for substitute of a bank account use Bitcoin, for substitute of fiat cash use Monero.

OT 2y ago

No, its just like why do I need anything else? Why bother swaps to monero when I get good enough privacy with lightning?

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

You still don't understand it's impossible for Bitcoin to be private.

For better or worse it's a public blockchain! 😂

Coinjoins don't make your transactions private. They obfuscate your identity (anonymity). But I can still see everything on the blockchain no matter how many times you coinjoin.

OT 2y ago

Monero is not a perfect solution either. There are less people using it & there are still ways of linking on ramps to spent amounts

If bitcoin had a "monero space chain" or "monero drive chain" (taking the speculation out) would you use monero?

m4dire0701 2y ago

Competition between multiple anonymous currencies is exactly what we need today

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