Replying to Avatar mar

The issue is, there isn’t really a “perfect” location, every government, whether local or national, is going to want to get involved in some way. There’s always a level of bureaucracy, taxation, and legal red tape that can’t be avoided, especially if you’re building something outside the norm. Plus, once you start introducing an economy of your own, you’ll run into even more resistance, be it from regulators or larger political forces.

I thought about doing that too, here is my advice.

step 1 is securing energy, without a reliable and sustainable power source, the whole thing is pretty much dead in the water. Look at El Salvador’s “Bitcoin City.” They were drawing up all these grandiose plans, but without a firm infrastructure, especially in terms of energy, it all crumbled. They essentially ran into the same issue that would-be citadel builders everywhere would face, you can’t just rely on abstract ideas without the foundational work to back it up.

The energy plant isn’t just a necessity, it’s a lifeline. Without a solid, self-sustaining source of power, whether through solar, wind, or even nuclear, you can’t hope to build anything that survives long-term. A citadel without power is essentially a mirage, looks great from afar but ultimately unfeasible.

Plus, there’s the economic side of it. How will the citadel sustain itself? How do you attract people? Even if you create it, you still need to make it attractive to the right mix of people who can contribute to its growth.

In theory, it’s an awesome idea, but in practice, it's a complex idea.

start with energy but that requires billions of dollars, just don't be dumb like El Salvador who thought if they legalized Bitcoin, rich Bitcoiners would flock to El Salvador and build a city. Bitcoiers are smarter than that plus they don't have experience in building a city or county.

first of all buying an old/abandoned village with friends vs "this piece of jungle will become a city" is a slightly different scale of a problem.

villages have infrastructure, sure they might be tied to municipal grid but it was a place where people live(d) so it tends to have water and power in one way or the other. depending on the geographical location residential solar can solve a lot of power needs in the mid term (provided you're in a reasonably sunny climate).

the suggestion of building a nuclear power plant for the purpose of a group of friends starting a community somewhere is obnoxious. obviously it would be great to have an abundant energy source, but that being prerequisite makes all of these plans a armchair survivalists dream.

the citadel doesn't need to sustain itself or attract people, the community can first prioritize food independence which is not impossible to achieve with decent amount of land over couple of years, while building out the infrastructure for other things on the go. the point is not to create an isolationist dream setup (thats how everything fails), but a community of productive families that work towards greater independence

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you are right. I underestimated your ambition. All you need is a few small generators, couple hammers and beer and you're pretty much set. Easily achievable.

clearly my ambition is only matched by your arrogance. small groups of dedicated people can accomplish tons and big grandiose plans that require endless amounts of capital and central planning tend to stay just that - plans.

You keep bringing up the el salvador fail without realizing that the fail was in having this needlessly grandiose plan that sounded great as a pitch but was not based in any reality.

Would having a nuclear reactor be great? Absolutely, i'd also love to have more compute than openai at my disposal and be able to produce my own semiconductors to be truly independent, but does any of that prevent me to move one step closer to independence as a start and not be paralyzed by telling people that without first figuring out how to have sovereign energy everything is useless is idiotic. what you really need is as nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnddaehgu3wwp6kyqpqyctudtwmdgqvgtpqthapanu6a7lk7h58vhuce50nmu6x2hssm6zq4dxw73 pointed out is water which is the basis for any kind of food production, and a lot more complicated to solve than energy if the land has no water access/isnt suitable for wells

What kills these projects? The most obvious thing in human nature - humans bickering about prioritising tasks due to scarce resources. Like this thread. 😂

It seems impossible to people now but throughtout human history people set off with their families and their friends to create a life for themselves out of nothing. And what we are starting with today is far from nothing.

I admire you dream and with the right people around you willing to work hard have no doubt you could make it work.

If no one ever set out and created a life for themselves we would have nothing in the world today.