Privacy and Anonymity can't coexist -- if I am chatting privately with you .. you got to know who I am !
#nostr is anonymous .. so is #bitcoin and they both are public !
If you want privacy check out #Simplex for communication and #monero for whatever it stands for :-)
All anonymity means is someones true identity is not known. Privacy means the contents/information between you and someone else, or a group of people, is not known to third parties.
Privacy and anonymity can definitely coexist. SimpleX and Monero is an example of this. But you can also use both without anonymity if you want, but thats the users choice.
I totally get your definitions - the point is if our IDs are not mutually known - why would two of us have a private (say SimpleX) chat .. Sure two anonymous people can have a random chat - like two persons talking in a traffic jam .. or in a public garden .. that conversation is just exchange of pleasantries .. or letting each other know Sun is pretty nice and warm this morning :-) Just to rehash the point - there is no good reason for two of us to chat on Simplex :-) .. but the anonymous public chat is quite useful - to third parties who know where we are coming from ... even to random people who have no clue of our true Identities.
This is NOT to say private channels have no utility ,, they are valuable tech ..
The point is - you can either be Anonymous OR private .. you cant have both the benefits at the same time ...
"...if our IDs are not mutually known - why would two of us have a private (say SimpleX) chat"
For one example just look at Bisq. Both parties can be anonymous (and usually are) and their communication is private.
You can also be anonymous on Nostr and have private communications in DMs with individuals or groups that may or may not be anonymous.
"...there is no good reason for two of us to chat on Simplex"
I communicate privately and anonymously on SimpleX all the time because my intended message is only relevant and intended for the user I'm DMing. Sure, sometimes it's not always strictly necessary to be private, but that's up to the user to decide.
"...you cant have both the benefits at the same time"
Yes, you can lol. We already have 4 examples (Bisq, SimpleX, Monero, Nostr) where you can be anonymous and communicate privately...but there are plenty more. Maybe you mean "don't necessarily need" instead of "cant"?
Yes you can send public information on private channels ..sure .. just as no one can STOP anyone from sharing their btc nsec on #nostr :-) But in reality private channel is used only when two parties trust each other ( PGP) .. On the other hand , public information can be shared with anonymous people ...
The point is - #bitcoin and #nostr are anonymous and public channels ... that is the design ... it is for users to protect their anonymity .... you are free to use your real pics, names or email in your public profile or you may use TOR and bunch of other tools to protect your ID ... that is strictly user choice ... BUT don't expect these protocols to provide you privacy ..
You can't have both the benefits ..
because if you want to relay truly private information , say your financial information , you got to make sure the party on the other end is really your financial advisor ..
If you don't want to take the pains to verify the true identity of receiver , then you can transmit only public information ..
I think for the specific situations you are describing it is true like financial advisors etc (maybe even for many cases), but I still don't see how anonymity and privacy are mutually exclusive as concepts. They just aren't i.e. the things I've already stated like Bisq having both.
I haven't tried Bisq .. I will check out ..
But we both have used cash .. I think it is NOT an anonymous transaction .. because even if we are tipping , we kinda know who we are giving the money to and why ..
I meant .. CASH transactions are well known to be private ... but we know for sure they are not Anonymous .. because if it is private it cant be anon ..
Yes, but these things aren't cash. And technically there are ways you can use cash anonymously by at least one party involved (Drop-offs, donation boxes, mail with no/fake return address, P.O. Boxes, etc)
I get your point though. Usually it's not used that way. But my point is it is possible to be anonymous while also being private. There is no law of physics that makes them mutually exclusive. Agree to disagree I guess.
You have some grave misunderstandings around these concepts. Please make your self comfortable with the meanings. Bitcoin is pseudonymous and Nostr could theoretically be used anonymously but for reasons oft practicality is used with a pseudonym as well. Be aeare that a non standardised (privacy optimised) decentralised network like Nostr will produce a lot of meta data that can and will be tied to your npub.
So you need to use other tech on top (tor, GOS) to keep it pseudonomus and not tied to your real life identity if you don't wish to.
Monero and Simplex work differently, they are private networks. So they enable anonymity. And both privacy and anonymity can go hand in hand.
Bitcoin and Nostr are public networks. So they enable pseudonimity, but as you correctly state no anonymity. Anonymous interactions on those networks would only be possible for one time unrelated actions, which defeats its purpose, of course taking meta data anonymisaton into account.
Sure - you probably know better ! Let me step back and explain what I am saying ..
At this moment of this conversation - you don't know who I am , I don't know who you are .. this is an anonymous conversation . This conversation is open to everyone . Suppose there is a third person who knows me as well as you - s/he can verify this conversation is between two of us - because contents are public and digitally signed by us. That is what I mean by "anonymous and public" . The word pseudonymous was coined much later .. we can go deeper in that if you like .. but that is unnecessary :-)
Sure you can find out who I am if you start a quest - like checking the meta-data or employing NSA :-) .. there is NOTHING that is absolutely hidden provided proportional efforts / interest.
If I get into a private simplex chat with you , there is no way for a third party to confirm that the discussion is between you and me. Which means you need to have a foolproof mechanism to know who I am . Which means we are not anonymous to each other. Thus a private conversation can't be anonymous . Sure two anonymous people can have a random chat - like two persons talking in a traffic jam .. or in a public garden .. that conversation is just exchange of pleasantries .. or letting each other know Sun is pretty nice and warm this morning :-) Just to rehash the point - there is no good reason for two of us to chat on Simplex :-) .. but the anonymous public chat is quite useful - to third parties who know where we are coming from ... even to random people who have no clue of our true Identities.
