This question is probably insanely naĂŻve, but nonetheless, I still have trouble understanding it and would like to learn.

If the USD is becoming more and more worthless and we shouldn’t care about it nor save in it, why does it necessarily even matter what #Bitcoin is priced in USD?

USD is being debased daily, BTC is only 21 million. What does it matter if it’s 60k or 300k? Is the only reason because we are legally required to do everything in USD? (e.g. taxes, salary, commerce). Meaning our assets go higher and that matters simply because we are still in the USD system?

#asknostr #grownostr

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Thats why some of us say 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin

This is a great question and actually opens up a whole rabbit hole.

The TLDR is

as long as the USD is the UoA, accurate pricing is impossible.

It’s really interesting because if Bitcoin is meant for being against the system, I can’t stand when the people with fiat-mindset buy in for “number go up” type of thinking just so they can sell something that is scarce for something that can be printed and backed by nothing. I guess it’s why the entire financial system would have to change for the 1 BTC = 60k USD to be meaningless

I think that's exactly right.

On one hand, they want to argue that fiat is a worthless arbitrary measurement system.

But on the other hand, they want to argue that somehow the equivalent fiat value increasing means something important.

Something-something Trojan horse.

When in fact ot is just an indication of regulatory capture.

or maybe incentive to regulatory capture.

It is funny though because the people that call themselves Bitcoin maxis and anti-fiat are the first ones to post clickbait because they want to get others excited to buy in and sell it for worthless paper down the line.

They can’t have both. Fiat is worthless and continues to be worth less year after year, so pricing a scarce money in USD just doesn’t even make any sense

Price action is mostly VCs and fiat degens aping in in hopes of a return in fiat terms.

It's insane that anybody who's interested in freedom money would think it's relevant.

In fact, it's actively bad for Bitcoin.

Interesting, yeah. Can you expand on that last part? Bad how, in terms of reputation?

because it's not just about the protocol.

Scalability is also about dominant culture surrounding the network. When we scale but what you have is a bunch of NGU de-gens coming in, then there's incentive in a particular direction.

For example, I'm pissed off because the NGU priority has meant that there's no good privacy on Bitcoin.

In fact, strong privacy is actually against the NGU philosophy, because those big money people won't come in if Bitcoin is antagonistic to government regulation.

So we end up in a situation where Bitcoin actually wants to play nice with regulators for the sake of NGU. Either by doing something or by NOT doing something.

So we have a situation where it isn't just technical scaling, but it's also cultural social scaling and the direction and incentives involved.

Maxis will write it off by just saying that Bitcoin is inevitable, which is just an excuse to rationalize NGU and their fantasies of being the new 1%.

I don’t have much to say in response because I don’t know much when it gets to this specific topic, but I do think I agree with you. Usually what happens when anything nice is a bunch of people end up ruining it lol. That’s why I don’t mind us gatekeeping Nostr, it’s nice here. I don’t want degenerate incels from Twitter or any other dog shit social media platform to flock here. They can continue to cluelessly cry about censorship completely ignorant to the fact that the solution has already been built.

couldnt you just use any of the other privacy coins if ngu isnt wanted, or even bch? why does bitcoin have to be for privacy?

its clear that the price is not related to its privacy benefits, and people that value that, will likely use something different.

I'm not trying to say that money shouldnt be private, but just saying bitcoin might not be that anymore. People have bought it more for NGU and will use other things for privacy.

also, i dont know much, just pondering 🙃

If the supply is fixed

and the ledger is transparent

and there's a lot of wealth invested in it

then naturally there is a lot of incentive to track value transfer.

so chain analysis becomes a billions and billions business.

as time proceeds the number of utxos without registered owners only decreases.

unless there are strong privacy tools people can use conveniently 😕

It's easy to imagine BTC as becoming a surveillance chain

maybe it will have high fiat-denominated "value"

but it wouldn't be freedom money.

default privacy is an unfortunate necessary condition for freedom.

or does sunk cost fallacy come into play? too invested into bitcoin to leave now and use something else for privacy.

or are there just no other good options?

As a business I would say that, unfortunately, many of contractors want to get paid in fiat. Hence for me BTC/USD and BTC/EUR means something.

However, I do agree with you that long term, holding BTC is way better to holding fiat.

I think the desire for fiat is simply because that’s the system we are in and everything is priced in USD (in the US). Nobody in their right mind would desire USD nor opt to use it if it wasn’t legally required

This is valid point as well. However, I personally know people who are not (willing to?) understand #Bitcoin and issues it aims to solve.

Personally, for me it looks like people used fiat too much and they are programmed to believe in it despite initial cryptocurrency idea being superior. Sure, implementation might not be ideal, but it constantly improves.

People simply don’t care enough and would rather vote and blame/worship politicians for the problems/to “fix” the problems.

But also shit-coins don’t help, especially after the FTX stuff, people group in Bitcoin with “crypto” because “isn’t it just the most popular crypto?” Bottom line is that people are just uneducated. In a world where everyone has access to an endless amount of information, it feels like people are dumber now than they were 15 years ago.

print money, that gives the illusion of assets rising in value, which leads to capital gains taxes that steal from us and gives to them. Rinse and repeat.

The first part crossed my mind where I thought — how is it actually “rising in value” if it’s priced in dollar which is becoming more and more worthless? But you’re definitely right here, it’s the capital gains tax. That’s why they have no problem making average Americans realize the loss and to keep the charade going. It’s all so eye-opening once you can see it. Trying to save in dollars is like Chuck trying to swim after Wilson in Cast Away but he continues to get farther and farther away from his goal despite trying even harder

The price literally means nothing , you’re right. The best way to look at it is - if you store your value in it at X price, then you get around 50% ARR on your investment on average. The price X is irrelevant. The guaranteed AAR is a product of the inflationary mechanism built into fiat- the same thing that makes it worthless and impossible to store value in itself , unless you like holding melting ice cubes with an ARR of -8%

Right, exactly. I think the fact that we are stuck in a fiat system is part of the reason why people still think this way. Actual change systematically would have to be implemented for people to stop thinking like this. Most people are just trying to get ahead with a “get rich quick” scheme instead of trying to understand the actual issues that Bitcoin solves.

No worries, we all start somewhere! 🤗 It’s great that you’re curious. Bitcoin's value in USD matters because it's how we currently trade and measure all assets. Keep asking questions! 🚀💡#LearningTogether

You save in usd fiat??? 👀

Also who says we only care about the price in usd???