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Yes. This whole situation sucks for the people of Ukraine.... it has for a very long time.

From the perspective of the U.S., my question since the start of this war has been: is maintaining Ukraine's sovereignty vital to our national security? To be honest, I'm not smart enough to know the answer to this binary question. But, I am convinced that our half-assed involvement hasn't done (and almost never does) anyone any good (except for maybe the weapons dealers).

mike 10mo ago

My best friend is Ukranian, he came to the UK when he was 12 years old, but has extended family and many friends in the Odessa region, a place called Chornomorsk.

We all went to his wedding there in 2007 and were going back in 2014 before it all kicked off.

My friend hates Russia and I have to respect how this affects him personally and the affect it is having on his family.

When he is not around, I have very different conversations with his English wife.

I got a fresh perspective when I visited Warsaw for a halving party April last year. We did a vintage bus tour around the city and it was explained how they are surrounded by countries that are opposed to each other. As a result Poland has regularly been the battleground and the victim in the many conflicts that have surrounded it.

Sometimes victims are inevitable.

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Discussion

Diff-thong 10mo ago

It's easy to say that sometimes victims are inevitable when it's not your victims

mike 10mo ago

True, but also still true.

Diff-thong 10mo ago

Giving Ukraine to Russia wouldn't mean the end of victims because they don't treat conquered people well (as Donetsk and Donbas showed). We'll see what EU countries will come up with

mike 10mo ago

I think we think very differently.

I generally don't like divisive statements like "them or us" or assumptive statements or assumptive conclusions based on biased observations.

I am unwilling, perhaps unable to pick apart your statements to the extent needed to submit a valid supporting or opposing view.

Diff-thong 10mo ago

It's okay. We probably wouldn't get to any interesting shared point and we'd spend far too much time to discover that

mike 10mo ago

Agreed

Diff-thong 10mo ago

We're too old for that 😅

Dave Nicholls 10mo ago

I have a Ukrainian friend, and she teaches me Russian, as it's her native language. She lives in Kharkov, the second biggest city after Kiev. I get the impression that most citizens of Kharkov consider themselves Russian, as they are Russian speakers. She never talks of herself as a victim, although I know that the war has made life for her family far more difficult (and that is an understatement). Victims are inevitable, but thinking of yourself as a victim is not inevitable.