Have tough questions for Primal? Chances are nostr:npub1hqaz3dlyuhfqhktqchawke39l92jj9nt30dsgh2zvd9z7dv3j3gqpkt56s and nostr:npub1tvqc82mv8cezhax5r34n4muc2c4pgjz8kaye2smj032nngg52clq0rkrq4 already covered them yesterday:
- Primal wallet KYC
- Partnership with Strike
- Zapathon wrecking Primal wallet
- “Social bitcoin wallet” positioning
- Caching service centralizing factors
- Raising VC money
- Primal as a business
- Ethical monetization
- Primal trending feeds
- Algorithms on Nostr
Re: primal trending…. and free market of algos … NIP for publishing and subscribing to content filters? … count me in.
A good social network needs:
-Feed curation (think TikTok)
-Push Notifications
-Creator rewards (think YT)
-Relay rewards
-Stable monetization (subscriptions and donations don't work, ads do.)
Build around this and put users in control. Even reward users for viewing ads. Let them control how much ad injection they want, with paid opt-out. Split revenue with creators to attract new creators and their tribes.
Split revenue with relays. Without relays, Nostr collapses. The client gets the traffic so it falls on them to steer the ship.
Good stuff! I think it would be great if there were even financial incentives (instead of disincentives) to run relays, because it could be profitable, instead of a cost burden. Then you would likely get more of them, which should be good for the network, and #Nostr would be even more uncensorable.
Bingo. There's a perverse FOSS obsession that's hurting Nostr. Profit motive works. Bitcoin miners make money, why the hell wouldn't Nostr Relays?
Either directly as a percent of ad revenue.
Or by tokenization.
Subscriptions don't work on social networks though. So it can't be pay-per-use.
But relays are the key to the whole thing. Setting up a relay should be as easy as installing an EXE and taking 20 seconds of setup time.
Yeah, I've heard of the expectation of getting things for "free" as being part of the fiat, Web 2.0 mindset.
I'm no fan of a subscription model either, but I think I could get with a pay per use model, which I don't see as the same exact thing. Like if I want to read a particular article or note/post, I might be willing to pay for that with a micro-payment of a few sats, possibly. I'm not sure, though, because it hasn't really been tested, to my knowledge.
that's a negative on the toxicanization but subscriptions wth guys
i'm doing my bit to make this a thing anyhow... it's not in my current work exactly but i've got pieces in place ready to do a full authed DM based CLI that will enable paying for subscriptions and no out of band website bullcrap, 100% pure #nostr
also, pay per use on a prepaid basis can work, but it has to be fairly flexible, i haven't even started to actually make a measure of what traffic actually happens, would be good to actually have accounting of how much event data actually is pulled by a client per npub and figure out a scheme for making that work
the time based subscription is probably adequate but it could be purely data based
LFG 🚀
Great 🤙💜🫡
No tough questions. Pretend curve balls. Are we naive because we wonder how you’ll make money eventually? Are we naive because we know what your previous business was? And who you sold it to?
What a shitshow
Thanks for caring enough to listen and take the time to post follow-up questions.
At my previous startup (Datazen) we developed a general purpose reporting product. Our customers were businesses of all sizes who wanted something better than Excel to visualize their data on mobile devices. The company was acquired by Microsoft in 2015 and our product was integrated into SQL Server Reporting Services.
How is any of this problematic in the context of Nostr/Primal?
Dunno, you tell me.
But let’s entertain a few thoughts…
For once, you understand data, data for businesses and data businesses. You understand how to move it, store it, secure it and make sense of it. I’m assuming you also understand how valuable it is. Of course, visualizing data is such a big umbrella that a whole lot of activities fall under it.
You brand as « naive » the people who’d like to understand how Primal can monetize, which is expected at some point with VC coming into the mix. That is not reassuring. A clear monetization plan is probably the most reassuring message the users could receive.
Let’s go in the hypothetical. No rush to monetize because startups get sold. Worked in the past. No? When they get sold, users get sold with it, and so does user data. That’s where matching npub to KYC comes in handy. You need to have something extra to sell. That’s the hypothetical.
I’m still unclear whether Strike gets the npub/KYC match as well, or whether that info stays with you.
Looking at both your documentations there is definitely room for the data to get sold at some point if « need be ». Nothing stops you from changing conditions and keep quiet about it.
Also, I came to the conclusion that both Ten31 and Hivemind Ventures should not be trusted. Mostly based on character of the people at the helm.
Da fuck do I know?!?! I’m just an autist having a meltdown.
And I won’t talk about the court documents I found. They unrelated, but they show character.
I don’t mind the scrutiny, I think it’s a feature of the nostr ecosystem, but please don’t base it on hypotheticals. Saying that we *could* change our terms in the future and *could* do something nefarious is not helpful.
As I said before, we plan to monetize by offering a premium tier to our users. We will do that when we are ready. There is a lot to build and we need to make sure that we can provide enough value for people to actually pay for the premium tier.
I’m not the one saying that. Your POLICY is: We may change this Privacy Policy from time to time. If we make changes, we will notify you by revising the date at the top of this notice and, in some cases, we may provide you with additional notice (such as adding a statement to our Website or sending you a notification). We encourage you to review this Privacy Policy regularly to stay informed about our information handling practices and the choices available to you.
We encourage you to review this Privacy Policy regularly… 🤣🤣🤣 WTF
« yes your honor, we did change the privacy policy on our users but we did change the date as promised and we made it clear to them that they’d better check the policy regularly, coz, hum, we were going to change it »
So your criticism is that our Privacy Policy is subject to change? That is literally the case with every privacy policy in the world. As the project evolves and features are added, the privacy policy must be updated accordingly. For example, we had to update our Privacy Policy when we added the wallet feature.
*If* we change our policy in the future to something that you think would be harmful to our users or the network, *then* by all means raise the flag and criticize us. Criticizing now based on the assumption that we *might* do it in the future is a bit premature.
I won’t be here when you do. But you will, do it.
Your project stinks. It made the whole of nostr stink with it. It stinks that you came out the gate with VC funding and an algo for a trending vitrine while lacking basic nostr features. It stinks that you match npub to KYC. Your communication stinks. I would have not gone digging if it wasn’t for one of your adverts, sorry not an advert « a genuine conversation ». What you, Odell and Max don’t get is that you reveal yourself in your language. Who cares? Nobody. I’m just a naive dumb fuck.
But who cares right? I mean… if one day everybody drinks from a poisoned lake it will only be a problem then.
Now, please do like wavlake and just ignore me. We don’t want what everyone else in the world is doing. It’s a FIAT world and Primal will fit perfectly in it.
Remind me in 5 years
It’s like you play dumb. I told you already last time just remove the « at times » from the policy. All changes to your privacy policy should be made obvious to all users and potential users via the app and official communication channels.
There you go. I fixed it.
Also, if Strike gets the npub/kyc match (3rd time asking if the do?) then their Privacy Policy is of importance as well.
Happy to respond to constructive criticism, but if the conversation degrades to name calling then yes, I’ll ignore you. Nothing personal I just don’t have time for that.
🫡💜
Having a veteran of many battles like nostr:npub16c0nh3dnadzqpm76uctf5hqhe2lny344zsmpm6feee9p5rdxaa9q586nvr so dedicated to the success of Nostr is a great thing for Nostr.
🫡
GM 💜
Yeah, I do. What happens if my nsec gets exposed on Primal? What should/can users do after that happens?
You can do nothing, anyone knowing your nsec is you. If you care about your digital identity have to protect it better than bitcoin private keys.
We need a solution. This going to be a big issue in the future. Based current client standards for a decent user experience. It’s a ticking time bomb.
