Nostr Web Client

I'm still running Bitcoin Core 28.

I think Ordinals and everything related to them that came afterwards are all spam and that spam should be treated as such.

I also don't feel comfortable running Bitcoin Knots, only because I feel that it's not battle tested enough for me to switch over.

That said, if I was new to the space and new to running a node, I'd run a Bitcoin Knots node because it aligns with those beliefs.

And then I'd probably have similar apprehensions about switching to Bitcoin Core due to 30s wild changes, turning Bitcoin into a really bad file server.

Run whatever you're comfortable running.

The main point is that you're running a node.

2bP 2mo ago

Is there a world where you might consider that some ordinals projects are trying to do more good than bad?

BTW, I totally understand the clutter perspective and I enjoy counter debates. We need our perspectives challenged because it's the only way we grow.

For me, Ordinals brings a huge cultural benefit to the Bitcoin ecosystem. If/when that is combined with thoughtful inscription processes that seek to minimise data size, I think they are a net benefit.

I know more ordinals folks running nodes and miners than I do pure coiners.

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Discussion

TallBrian 2mo ago

Bitcoin is money. Take your culture elsewhere.

2bP 2mo ago

I run two full nodes, multiple minning rigs and have a significant portion of my net worth in bitcoin.

It's a little sad that you'd reduce my value to nothing just because I own ordinals.

Wouldn't a better position be "hey, I don't agree with you on the ordinal stuff but kudos for doing your bit"

TallBrian 2mo ago

I didn’t reduce your value to nothing. That is projection. I applaud and appreciate your contribution to Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is a public good. If you think of it as a wall in a park where every 10 minutes we update the ledger of the world that helps to frame it. It is the most important public good ever to exist. Ordinals are like walking up to that wall and painting a a picture on it. No matter how beautiful or culturally relevant the picture is, that’s not where it belongs. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. We need this to serve its core function and there are plenty of other walls for you to culturally embellish.

2bP 2mo ago

I understand your perspective but for many Bitcoin is the perfect place to create something where it is beyond decay.

Banksy paints wherever tf he likes. Some think he's a genius, others think he's an idiot.

TallBrian 2mo ago

Yes, but on the question is not if you WANT to store arbitrary data on a public wall. The question is if it is RIGHT to do so. The mature answer to that question is clearly a no. Graffiti has always existed and I’m not dumb enough to think you will stop, but I also am not going to stop shaming people for selfish immature behavior. Ideally we find a way to prevent it that doesn’t compromise the monetary use case of Bitcoin. In the meantime, all I can do is ask people who choose to do it, as nicely as I can, to please quit being assholes.

2bP 2mo ago

Again... right or wrong, good or bad it's entirely subjective. We don't see eye to eye on this specific part of Bitcoin but probably agree on others.

Appreciate the debate.

TallBrian 2mo ago

If you start from 1st principles it is not subjective at all. The Non-aggression principle does not allow you to deface property of others including common goods. The ledger is a common good and ordinals harm it by impairing its intended purpose.

I also appreciate the debate. Although I believe you’re wrong, I respect the way you’re approaching the discussion. Thank you for that.

2bP 2mo ago

Indeed it is public but that means it's my chain as much as it is your chain. Therefore, provided what I do with it is within the accepted rules (which it is), my right to use it how I like is no less valid than yours.

For avoidance of doubt, I want to make clear that I'm not inscribing data habitually like some maniac. In fact I very seldom do it and when I have, it has been tiny because that's part of the challenge.

Derek Ross 2mo ago

there is zero arguement how ordinals can help people forgotten by or taken advantage by the legacy financial system. no one in a developing nation can benefit from an image saved on the timechain. they're on nostr. you can ask them if you don't believe me.

2bP 2mo ago

Does the fact that some of these projects are actively onboarding people to bitcoin not count for something?

Like I said, many are even running infrastructure to support the network. Surely thats a positive thing?

Fwiw, this is for me just dialogue. I've no intention of this being combative.

Derek Ross 2mo ago

You're mixing unsound advice with sound money. I'm not trying to be combative either with you. I'm just stating what seems to me as the obvious.

The only benefit to Ordinals is that Shitcoiners are Shitcoining less on other chains and bringing their funds to Bitcoin. It's my hope that after people get rekt and lose everything, that they see the error of their ways and stop. Sometimes you have to touch the stove, ya know?

That said, spam will always exist because there's always a new fool to con out of their money. I don't see why Bitcoin wouldn't be different here.

2bP 2mo ago

You're describing a subset of people. There are many very smart, bitcoin aligned communities that have been born out of ordinals.

Of course, there are a lot of bad actors too but that exists - as you alluded - on all chains.

I guess what I'm saying is that not all communities, individuals or organisations that utilise bitcoin in non-monetary ways are a net negative.

We evidently disagree on some stuff here but we are both here engaging in respectful debate and contributing to the network in our own ways. You're the ecowarrior and I'm the capitalist buying carbon credits - bad analogy perhaps 😆

Derek Ross 2mo ago

nostr:npub1zach44xjpc4yyhx6pgse2cj2pf98838kja03dv2e8ly8lfr094vqvm5dy5 is an Ordinals fan, and one of my favorite Nostr developers, though sadly he's not around building as much as he used to be. He's incredibly intelligent and a super nice person. We just disagree on this topic, and that's okay.

2bP 2mo ago

Exactly. Gave him a follow too 🤝

Scrotus 2mo ago

Bitcoin found it's first use case as a money for the dark web. Ordinals, in addition to being used to scam marks, can be used for tax evasion/ money laundering. The markets make themselves.

Filthy Fiat Wallet 2mo ago

Bitcoin’s sole intent.

Keep your eye on the ball.