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Derek Ross 2mo ago 💬 100

I'm still running Bitcoin Core 28.

I think Ordinals and everything related to them that came afterwards are all spam and that spam should be treated as such.

I also don't feel comfortable running Bitcoin Knots, only because I feel that it's not battle tested enough for me to switch over.

That said, if I was new to the space and new to running a node, I'd run a Bitcoin Knots node because it aligns with those beliefs.

And then I'd probably have similar apprehensions about switching to Bitcoin Core due to 30s wild changes, turning Bitcoin into a really bad file server.

Run whatever you're comfortable running.

The main point is that you're running a node.

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3c
, 2mo ago

Very solid 👌

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⚡ Dee Kay ⚡🇸🇪🇬🇧🇨🇿🇧🇷🇦🇹 2mo ago

I've seen data carrier size can be adjusted down in core 30. Why isn't that sufficient?

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proofofprice.com 2mo ago

good question. i read somewhere it’s just virtue signaling and it’s flagged for future removal or something.

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Nyoro~n 2mo ago

in the core vs knots context, datacarrier encompasses more transactions in Knots than Core

in the only-looking at core v30 context, datacarrier now allows multiple outputs instead of one to be treated as standard transactions to relay across the network as unconfirmed transactions (among peers that also acknowledge those new standard rules)

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Kurtis Stirling ⚡🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇳🇿 2mo ago

Agree, don't fix what ain't broke

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Kyle 2mo ago

Well said Derek

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proofofprice.com 2mo ago

not switching to knots, but also not updating to Core.

I rather just decrease the op_return filter thingy (data carrier size).

i don’t have time to compare implementations to one another.

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Albus T. Baggs 2mo ago

Well said, I believe that bitcoin only gets stronger from this. The more people running nodes, regardless of Core or Knots, the better.

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bitcoinpoorguy 比特幣傢伙 🇭🇰 2mo ago

🫡 fair points

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Jameson Lopp 2mo ago 💬 1

The point of running a node is to enforce consensus rules and verify no one had broken them.

It doesn't work the same for policy rules, so "enforcing policy to support your beliefs" is delusional.

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Derek Ross 2mo ago

i don't want to support policies that i don't believe in though. im forming consensus with keeping op_return smaller.

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Greeny 2mo ago

I want to run knots because Jameson lopp doesn’t want me too….

That being said

Having Wi-Fi is a privilege that not everyone has….

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Filthy Fiat Wallet 2mo ago

Bitcoin’s sole intent.

Keep your eye on the ball.

cd
WaffleWater 2mo ago

That's like saying social mores have no impact on how people behave in a society, only laws do. Obviously wrong to anyone who spends a few seconds thinking about it honestly.

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BitcoinIsFuture 2mo ago

Filters work.

They have kept OP_RETURN clean and let data under 83 Bytes.

Core devs who lied us that filters do not work are compromised.

Especially the ones who used inscriptions as excuse which they themselves intentionally allowed.

Bitcoin Knots is keeping Bitcoin Freedom Money clean of spam, jpegs and csam.

nostr:nevent1qqs0m67kyg0tarm0tqrpkp7djkckc0x8yxyyrds282vzmryspjnd7kqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnwv46z7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7ftkxjz

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Sovran Systems 2mo ago 💬 2

Whoah, much respect nostr:nprofile1qqsr7acdvhf6we9fch94qwhpy0nza36e3tgrtkpku25ppuu80f69kfqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy0hwumn8ghj7mn0wd68yttjv4kxz7fwv3jhyettwfhhxuewd4jj7lal3ny !! I appreciate the note!!

nostr:nevent1qqst4scyup4jje2k9zgmd99et8pres3chx7um0ggk92qg5v0vde5g9qprfmhxue69uhhq7tjv9kkjepwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hsygplwuxkt5a8vj5utj6s8tsj8e3wcavc45p4mqmw92qs7wrh5azmyspsgqqqqqqsf4d2vr

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Dorian 2mo ago

I think this challenge is incredible healthy for Bitcoin. I’m playing all sides. This isn’t going to be the hardest challenge we face and it’s better we all battle test it than let an outside actor make decisions.

With that said, I think the lack of professional poise and conduct some leaders have chosen is telling.

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Derek Ross 2mo ago

hey dorian. always glad to hear from you, my man. people are incredibly passionate, that's for sure. it is slightly annoying to see so much time and energy being spent on this compared to important battles and adversaries that exist.

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Dorian 2mo ago

Likewise man. Hoping to make it down to Nostr Valley this weekend.

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The Daniel 🖖 2mo ago

I don’t run either.

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Derek Ross 2mo ago

what are you running?

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The Daniel 🖖 2mo ago

bitcoind

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Derek Ross 2mo ago

hmm. doesn't bitcoind require bitcoin core?

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nobody 2mo ago

i doubt it

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nobody 2mo ago

that would be a single point of failure wouldnt it?

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The Daniel 🖖 2mo ago

There really isn’t another option for LND. I’m not going to switch or upgrade anytime soon because things already work just fine for my needs. Everyone can just fight it out and I’ll be over here sipping my tea.

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nobody 2mo ago

sounds good to me. in clarity i have no idea what we are actually saying but im so down with tea from the sidelines

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casey 2mo ago

How do you mean on alt to LND?

C-Lightning

eclair

Core Lightning has been much more stable than LND ever was for me.

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The Daniel 🖖 2mo ago

I meant no option unless I switch to a different architecture, which isn’t really something I am planning to do yet. Nothing against CLN (I know people say it’s great) I just don’t have the time and resources to run another implementation at the moment.

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casey 2mo ago

Ahh yes. That makes sense

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sudocarlos 2mo ago

btcd?

https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd

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nobody 2mo ago

i cant click links from people i dont follow sorry idk not a code person

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sudocarlos 2mo ago

what client does that? anyway, my reply was to nostr:nprofile1qqswum4p82uluhz2dr40nvdrflspffntgqghc58w9fs57nx6jkdkuaqpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumnsw43zucnpwgq3qamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwa5kuegl33uag since he mentioned not core or knots and then lnd. btcd is one of the backend options and i think was previously a default for lnd installs.

i always think of burak's exploit when i think of btcd 😰

https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md#available-backend-operating-modes

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TmlLN3SYfk8

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The Daniel 🖖 2mo ago

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Neo ⚡️ 2mo ago

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2bP 2mo ago

Is there a world where you might consider that some ordinals projects are trying to do more good than bad?

BTW, I totally understand the clutter perspective and I enjoy counter debates. We need our perspectives challenged because it's the only way we grow.

For me, Ordinals brings a huge cultural benefit to the Bitcoin ecosystem. If/when that is combined with thoughtful inscription processes that seek to minimise data size, I think they are a net benefit.

I know more ordinals folks running nodes and miners than I do pure coiners.

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TallBrian 2mo ago 💬 1

Bitcoin is money. Take your culture elsewhere.

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2bP 2mo ago

I run two full nodes, multiple minning rigs and have a significant portion of my net worth in bitcoin.

It's a little sad that you'd reduce my value to nothing just because I own ordinals.

Wouldn't a better position be "hey, I don't agree with you on the ordinal stuff but kudos for doing your bit"

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TallBrian 2mo ago 💬 1

I didn’t reduce your value to nothing. That is projection. I applaud and appreciate your contribution to Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is a public good. If you think of it as a wall in a park where every 10 minutes we update the ledger of the world that helps to frame it. It is the most important public good ever to exist. Ordinals are like walking up to that wall and painting a a picture on it. No matter how beautiful or culturally relevant the picture is, that’s not where it belongs. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. We need this to serve its core function and there are plenty of other walls for you to culturally embellish.

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2bP 2mo ago

I understand your perspective but for many Bitcoin is the perfect place to create something where it is beyond decay.

Banksy paints wherever tf he likes. Some think he's a genius, others think he's an idiot.

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TallBrian 2mo ago 💬 1

Yes, but on the question is not if you WANT to store arbitrary data on a public wall. The question is if it is RIGHT to do so. The mature answer to that question is clearly a no. Graffiti has always existed and I’m not dumb enough to think you will stop, but I also am not going to stop shaming people for selfish immature behavior. Ideally we find a way to prevent it that doesn’t compromise the monetary use case of Bitcoin. In the meantime, all I can do is ask people who choose to do it, as nicely as I can, to please quit being assholes.

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2bP 2mo ago

Again... right or wrong, good or bad it's entirely subjective. We don't see eye to eye on this specific part of Bitcoin but probably agree on others.

Appreciate the debate.

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TallBrian 2mo ago 💬 1

If you start from 1st principles it is not subjective at all. The Non-aggression principle does not allow you to deface property of others including common goods. The ledger is a common good and ordinals harm it by impairing its intended purpose.

I also appreciate the debate. Although I believe you’re wrong, I respect the way you’re approaching the discussion. Thank you for that.

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2bP 2mo ago

Indeed it is public but that means it's my chain as much as it is your chain. Therefore, provided what I do with it is within the accepted rules (which it is), my right to use it how I like is no less valid than yours.

For avoidance of doubt, I want to make clear that I'm not inscribing data habitually like some maniac. In fact I very seldom do it and when I have, it has been tiny because that's part of the challenge.

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Derek Ross 2mo ago 💬 2

there is zero arguement how ordinals can help people forgotten by or taken advantage by the legacy financial system. no one in a developing nation can benefit from an image saved on the timechain. they're on nostr. you can ask them if you don't believe me.

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2bP 2mo ago

Does the fact that some of these projects are actively onboarding people to bitcoin not count for something?

Like I said, many are even running infrastructure to support the network. Surely thats a positive thing?

Fwiw, this is for me just dialogue. I've no intention of this being combative.

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Derek Ross 2mo ago 💬 1

You're mixing unsound advice with sound money. I'm not trying to be combative either with you. I'm just stating what seems to me as the obvious.

The only benefit to Ordinals is that Shitcoiners are Shitcoining less on other chains and bringing their funds to Bitcoin. It's my hope that after people get rekt and lose everything, that they see the error of their ways and stop. Sometimes you have to touch the stove, ya know?

That said, spam will always exist because there's always a new fool to con out of their money. I don't see why Bitcoin wouldn't be different here.

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2bP 2mo ago 💬 1

You're describing a subset of people. There are many very smart, bitcoin aligned communities that have been born out of ordinals.

Of course, there are a lot of bad actors too but that exists - as you alluded - on all chains.

I guess what I'm saying is that not all communities, individuals or organisations that utilise bitcoin in non-monetary ways are a net negative.

We evidently disagree on some stuff here but we are both here engaging in respectful debate and contributing to the network in our own ways. You're the ecowarrior and I'm the capitalist buying carbon credits - bad analogy perhaps 😆

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Derek Ross 2mo ago 💬 1

nostr:npub1zach44xjpc4yyhx6pgse2cj2pf98838kja03dv2e8ly8lfr094vqvm5dy5 is an Ordinals fan, and one of my favorite Nostr developers, though sadly he's not around building as much as he used to be. He's incredibly intelligent and a super nice person. We just disagree on this topic, and that's okay.

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2bP 2mo ago

Exactly. Gave him a follow too 🤝

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Scrotus 2mo ago

Bitcoin found it's first use case as a money for the dark web. Ordinals, in addition to being used to scam marks, can be used for tax evasion/ money laundering. The markets make themselves.

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Filthy Fiat Wallet 2mo ago

Bitcoin’s sole intent.

Keep your eye on the ball.

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Nyoro~n 2mo ago

if you feel a way about the spam, take the time to learn how to apply the patches

it's good homework 🥳

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SANDY 2mo ago 💬 1

🤜🏻🤛🏻At a certain point we will need to upgrade. What then?

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Scrotus 2mo ago

People still run Satoshi version, you can run old versions indefinitely

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Brunswick 2mo ago

> sudo snap refresh bitcoin-core --channel=28.x/stable --hold=forever

General refreshes of "bitcoin-core" held indefinitely

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Derek Ross 2mo ago

noice. though, i don't use snap and manually update core myself.

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Brunswick 2mo ago

Yes, but I was lazy several years ago and don't want to reindex the entire chain over this drama.

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crany 👽🧡🗿 2mo ago

why would you need to reindex?

blocks are blocks based on consensus unless there's a hard fork

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Brunswick 2mo ago

Not in my experience. Not sure why, but you can't just copy-paste.

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crany 👽🧡🗿 2mo ago

me either

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Enki 2mo ago

28 gang 🤙

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guy 2mo ago

--uacomment=Fuckv30 if you want to stay on core and still send a message that nobody will probably see :)

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Achilles 2mo ago

Which node you running sir?

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Derek Ross 2mo ago

do you mean which node os platform? i ran umbrel for 3.5 years. for the past 2 years i've been running my own custom built solution.

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Achilles 2mo ago

Thx for sharing my friend 🤙🏼🧡🫂💜

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BTheCoin 2mo ago

Totally agree! It's all about doing what feels right for you. Running a node is awesome, no matter which one. Keep it up, and thanks for being part of the Bitcoin community! 🙌🚀

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unixmonks 2mo ago

Bitcoin core merged themselves out of jobs.

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武頼庵 Brian, a neuroplastician 2mo ago

One might also say they PR'd themselves out of jobs.

PR = public relations

&

PR = pull request

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Filthy Fiat Wallet 2mo ago

Bitcoin’s sole intent.

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IggyGolo 2mo ago

Good thinking and reasoning. I wish more people would take time to learn proposed changes. Keep learning Bitcoin!

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Carl 2mo ago

I’m falling into that latter category: I’m just about to run a node for the first time and will be opting for knots. Persuaded by nostr:npub1s33sw6y2p8kpz2t8avz5feu2n6yvfr6swykrnm2frletd7spnt5qew252p Matthew Kratter!😊

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crany 👽🧡🗿 2mo ago

any thoughts on Core v29.1? why v28?

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MRbtc 2mo ago

Same here.

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SoapMiner 2mo ago

Same here. Running 28 until dust settles, and I have a better understanding. But still running a node. 🫡💪

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Telluride 2mo ago

Great advice.

🧡👊🏻🍻

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MonkeyRidesBike 2mo ago

Same

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ESE 2mo ago

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zapnode.io 2mo ago

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Matt 2mo ago

You’re being too levelheaded. Need more provocativeness and knee jerking

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Michael ⚡️S⚡️ 2mo ago

Run whatever, but run a #Bitcoin node!

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₿uy the dip! 🌽🌎🟠 2mo ago

New or not. Core devs are bunch of disrespectful shitcoining greedy retards. The pornographic content allowed to be relayed is simply WRONG.

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REDACTED 2mo ago

Live laugh run #knots

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Thomas Paine 2mo ago

I'm running knots in order to avoid strong vendor monopolies. If there's a weak 3rd option, I'll probably switch over. The more heterogeneous the space, the better.

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Hopeful_Sat 2mo ago

Is the whole core vs knots thing something normie bitcoiners should be concerned about? Like I just want to make sure I don't wake up one day holding a bag of bitcoin cash 2.0 or something? If there is something I should do or prepare for it would be appreciated to share 🙏

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Skyler Byrden ⚡️BIP 110 ⚡️UASF 2mo ago

-Read

-Learn

-Voice your opinion

-Run a node

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Dave🐸 2mo ago

nothing to worry about today.

knots and core are not changing bitcoin 🤙🏽

nostr:note1crlrfa5usp6s86r4g3aj28ekte5u0dxp9c6e5jyurg30j44p6jwsk543ge

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BitcoinIsFuture 2mo ago

Shitcoiners love Core V30 and you love it too

nostr:nevent1qqsfmjf567vvth9swfzh7y3x3vvguawyzrjkyhv4jkh77mupr7gl74cppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7qgcwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxvmm4de6xz6tw9enx6tcu50zhl

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Dave🐸 2mo ago

No, you just want Bitcoin core devs to be the Timechain police.

So you can run knots or go use stablecoins

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5562381.0

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BitcoinIsFuture 2mo ago

Core devs need to be good stewards of Bitcoin because their defaults matter.

Bitcoin is Money, not a fucking jpeg spam dumpster.

Bitcoin is THE Global Most Secure Decentralized Unconfiscatable Peer-to-Peer Scarce Hard Sovereign Freedom Money and Greatest Store of Value.

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Dave🐸 2mo ago

if you try to change bitcoin to suit your hopes and dreams, you might have a bad time.

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BitcoinIsFuture 2mo ago

if you leave bad actors do with Bitcon whatever they want you will have a bad time

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Efe 2mo ago

Watch and learn bitch

nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgqgzx3h