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One more thing I will add that may clarify what I mean is when Jesus said "I am the truth, the life, and the way, no one comes to the father except through me. " he was not talking about his self entity but the light of his that sees and experiences through him.

It's very much like a zen koan. In fact when I read the Bible it's full of koans. I grew up catholic so I've read the Bible quite a bit. Reading and copying revelations after getting in trouble for asking questions they couldn't answer in Sunday school when I was 11 was one of the first times a samadhi experience happened to me.

The way I see it all religion is pointing at the same non-conceptual reality but using concepts to do it. Concepts about God is where they disagree in my experience. But God is by definition not conceptual. God represents what is actual of the reality under the vestment.

Bobby 2y ago

And that is my problem with everything you’re saying. You are appealing to an objective reality but have no proof or logic to back it. The quotation you state about Christ IS reflecting His claims about his self entity. He claimed to forgive sin, claimed to be God which is why people wanted to have him killed for blasphemy.

I hear what you’re saying but it has no logical backing. It’s all based on feeling and I can’t get behind it personally.

Appreciate the discussion Bodhi! Thanks for actually having an awesome conversation about differences and being a respectful person. This is why I love Nostr.

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Discussion

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Week the problem with objective reality is its still defined by the senses when the discovery of the electromagnetic spectrum showed that what the senses are capable of interpreting is less than 1 millionth of reality.

Appreciate the conversation as well. It's easy to be kind when one doesn't hold views and beliefs very tightly. Character comes through in every action of mind, speech, and body.

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Logic can only take one to the threshold but reality is not a concept. Concepts are the expression of reality appearing through the human mind that tries to comprehend reality.

Bobby 2y ago

How do you know any of that to be true? You’ve used some version of your feelings, emotions, thoughts, reason, etc.

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Of course we use logic to understand direct experiencing. But reality is here before our concepts about it is it not?

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Basically what I'm saying is the same thing as when Jesus said "the son of man has nowhere to rest his head. " reality is appearing as thought, form, feeling, perception, and consciousness interpreted through the five senses. Yet there is no thought, form, perception, feeling, or consciousness that is not the expression of reality.

So relative truth can only be an appearance of absolute truth.

For example the thought "i am" is the expression of present awareness.

Bobby 2y ago

The question still remains. How do you know that to be true?

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Direct experiencing before mind and sense perception make interpretations about it.

This is a very simple recognition.

https://youtu.be/3vQHpfzQfBE

Bobby 2y ago

How are you experiencing it without your mind and senses?

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

The mind and senses are what is being experienced, aren't they? Like in the example the mind and senses are the coloring that appears in the glass but when you take the orange juice away the clarity is still there.

Right now as you have a thought that thought is directly seen, isn't it?

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Here is one more pointer to what I'm saying.

Bodhi☯️ 2y ago

Bringing this idea to a Christian frame of reference it might be said that God (what is actual) is seeing through you.

Bobby 2y ago

Your reasoning is circular.