So its Censorship. 🫨🤣🥳✨️

You can beat around the bushes with your explanations the only thing I see that my content is left for 5 anons to be a judge to that. And thise 5 anons probably ran by the same person. You didnt do anything to help anyone here but you rather censored the noise you and devs dont like... obviously found a way to look as if its to protect. Please. Pure Censorship. Nothing else. Anyway. Good luck ... lets see how Nostr grows after this ... yall be left 5 talking to each other. Thanks for your time. Pleasure... ✨️🙏

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its not censorship, and its not 5 randoms. Those 5 people mute option only affects people that follows all 5 of them simultaneously. If I mute you in my feed it’s not censorship just because “the decision of a single person dictated the blocking of a message”. Muting an user is an expression of one’s opinion, and if you want to dictate who is not allowed to mute someone in their social mesh you are the one enforcing censorship in the network.

Muting someone is optional and always on the user side. The devs cannot globally mute anyone at their will. Those automated mutes are personalised for specific users based on who was muted by their close contacts. It’s literally the opposite of a “people you could know” recommendation, not censorship. You got it very well explained and this thread is obviously bait.

Stop baiting then?

It is definitely censorship, sorry. There's no valid reason my posts should be hidden when I don't spam or anything and I make some of the highest quality posts on nostr

You cant be serious that you are now coming to me with this. Close circles and you get easily 5 accounts that have a problem with the same account when you have 1 person running minimum of 5 accounts here. How can then this 5 accounts of a single handler be responsible for shadowing my account to all his 5 accounts followings as protection. This whole place is rigged. Dont test my intelligence cuz all of this can be manipulated by 1 single person. Cant you see that? 😒🫨✨️🔥

… I am seeing your post, you are not being censored. Why do you think you are being censored? Is any friend not seeing your posts?

Are you seeing my posts?

yes.

Good to know. But if you scroll up you can see the screenshot where I was being censored for Bearetta

That means Bearetta is following five accounts that muted that message, and the app muted it for her as a recommendation. It can be disabled by the user, and it does not affect users which dont follow the same accounts. I get your point, if someone creates 5 accounts they can mute a message for their connections, but this only works if their client is configured with this option, and if you make someone follow 5 different fake accounts. It is not censorship

following the “muting is censorship idea”, reposting would be censorship and control too? When I repost a post I make it appear in my mutuals feeds, would that make me a “controller of media and opinions”?

Bro just look up what censorship means, this is crazy

Idk why you keep repeating "it isn't censorship" like it's too hard for you to look up the definition of the word "censorship"

Again, there's no reason my reporting should be filtered for so many users when I don't spam or anything and continue making many of the highest quality posts on nostr

I keep saying it because it is not censorship. No one is globally removing your posts or silencing you in any way. The fact that we are talking in this thread proves it.

It is not filtered for “many users”. It is filtered for the small groups of users when 5 or more people of the group decide to personally block you.

They "silence" me enough to stop me from regaining contact with Digit so far

You're underestimating how many users I'm filtered for, while I'm glad you weren't one of them

same result you would get even if this was not a client feature, I’m afraid. For every “soft block” made by web of trust there are 5 people who directly blocked you. You would only stop being blocked for 1/5 of the total.

Who is digit?

Digit was a friend on wallstreetbets that deleted her accounts to get away from me while believing a bunch of lies from people about me trying to psychologically harm her and such

She also left me very worried about her because she was going through some shit and obviously not quite OK if she'd fall for these lies and disappear over it after being such a good friend

My life is dedicated to showing her I was always honest with her & I basically treat it as a full time job trying to make posts people will see online until I encounter her, or someone that knows her, or I get so many followers I can put pressure on the people that lied to her int he first place

“or I get so many followers I can put pressure on the people that lied to her in the first place”

…so you want to do to others what you are fighting against for in this thread? gain followers and use that to enforce pressure on others speech.

I really hope you find Digit and get to talk to them again. But I honestly think you are not being censored in any way. You are just not reaching parts of the network that did not mind about your goals in the first place. Even if they could see you, It would not help in your search.

I want my posts to be seen by Digit or someone that knows her and can just show her

But if that doesn't happen, the only other solution I can think of would be people flooding wallstreetbets to ask about her and what happened with us

I'm not trying to control anyone's speech, I almost never mute people or anything

Thank you for wishing me luck

Who needs to see me sees me. This is all so easily abused that I just have to laugh to it... nothing more or less... the concept is abusable and yall can or dont want to see it.

it is not any abuse or exploit, it is how a social network works. There is no system in which everyone sees everything, as this is literally impossible. There are too many messages.

Are languages censorship? If I write something in russian the message wont reach a group of people that do not speak russian.

This is what nostr clients do. YOU decide what you want yo see. When you are using any nostr client you are filtering all the messages on the network to get a personalised and usable feed. For example, you filter by kind. When using any social media client we are only getting a small set of kinds like posts, zaps, likes… and muting (not censoring) anything else. Just because it is not relevant for the usecase.

I am sorry to tell you this: if the majority of people in a small group do not listen to your messages you just… don’t reach that group, and that’s okay, it is not censorship applied to the whole network. And again, it is an optional and client-specific feature. I do not have it in mine, no matter how many friends block someone I will still see their messages (unless I block them myself)

I think reporting me because I'm annoying, while having enough followers to get me blacklisted for many users, is definitely abusing that system

Especially if devs have that system in place because they're trying to fight spam from child abuse promoters and stuff, not me

Lets say a person like me would never do that to anyone not even you no matter how annoying they are. Some of us actually truly grasp the fact that we are not all the same but we need to learn to coexist. For me this muting and blocking is only for heavy crime stuff... and real ugly shit. Not common people with different minds. Our diversity makes us all special.

I don't even mute the criminals. If a post seems outright "unsafe" to me I just don't touch it, don't leave any trail to it, nothing. And if the same person making one of those posts needs someone to talk to, at least they have me as an option to talk to instead of making posts like that

I haven't seen that kind of material here still... just some groosome videos and pics I had tu mute not to see ... also reported because it was criminal. Knowing that kind of material was published by that account makes me sure I don't want to see what that person has to post next.

That's fair of course 🫡

but muting is a nostr event made by me, and I should have the right to say “I don’t want to listen to you”. And people should have the right to follow as I do. It’s a catch 22 situation. If you say who should be muted by who, you are… muting other people’s right to mute anyone they want.

I personally do not mute just to not listen to other’s opinions, we are having this discussion for instance. Yet I understand that it maybbe the case for others. The current system is quite useful, instead of manually blocking a lot of accounts the client can just automatically mute using a web of trust system. But it works no different than languages for example. By learning one language you are, by the socia web you connect to, “muting” everyone who speaks a different language. Yet you could learn and translate if you wanted to. It’s not censorship for anyone.

Bro come back when you manage to explain me the situation of a single person controlling over 5 npubs (some have ridiculous amounts of npubs with big followimgs) and him having right to mandate 1 single accounts reach. When you prove me this cant be manipulated then we can talk more. Now seriously im bored and out. Jesus I already said that...

hmm, so if it is so easy to create different accounts, you can create a different account that won’t be “censored” and post from there, isn’t it? How can you be manipulated by “a lot of fake accounts” if the manipulation is only applied to one single account of yours?

The situation has been explained hours ago. No one is censoring you, you can fight all the fake battles you want.

If you want a place where everyone hears you without having a mute choice go to the street with a speaker and shout your lungs out. If you don’t like the web of trust system don’t use it, move to another client or even better! create your own client and relay for full freedom of speech with no mutes. Or go back to twitter, give them your ID and post all you want until someone in the company decides to delete your account making you not only unable to be listened to, but unable to speak for yourself. That’s real censorship.

This is nostr, and as in bitcoin it is not 1 key = 1 identity. That makes possible a medium to talk without being censored using all the pseudonyms you need, giving you and others full freedom of speech. But don’t be mad when others use their freedom to say: “I think we should not listen to this guy”, “yeah, you are right, I’m muting him too”, “5 of my friends blocked them? I’ll block them too, then”

You said so much saying absolutely nothing.

yet you can't do anything about it, because in this system you cannot control what others say. I have the right to post all I want while saying "nothing" and I have the right of muting anyone for any reason, without needing any excuse and without being censored for it. This is what anti-censorship is.

So your 5 npubs dont have any right to limit my notes reach to your followers!!!!! Same shit.... different packaging .... you have right for this for that... well you and your hypothetical 5 npubs shouldnt block my note reaching your 5npubs followers!

Grow the SAME followers in five accounts simultaneously? All of this for something that can be countered by you creating a new npub or rotating your existing one. Does not make sense, in my honest opinion.

It is already difficult for me to mute some automated accounts that rotate their npubs frequently. Me, a single npub, unable to control my feed. Controling others with five different accounts and it being effective? I don’t think so. Not practical, and not enforced in any way.

And, I wanna stretch this out, even if this was the case, they are NOT censoring you. They are just not listening to you anymore. They are not limiting your reach to people who wants to listen to you. I have the right to listen to anyone I want, and everyone has the right to speak to anyone they want. But that doesn’t add up to you having the right to being listened by people who don’t want to.

plus, does it really make sense? Lets suppose muting you is impossible whitin the system, and people who don’t want / don’t like your opinion still is obligated to see all your posts. What are you gaining from this exactly? Unwanted attention? mandatory reading? If this is your usecase you might as well create your own blog, where only your content is visible and cannot be muted. Or make a book.

I understand your point, it may seem unfair that 5 accounts with many followers create a small group that massively impact your reach. But the group in question is “people following the ones who don’t want to listen to you”. What do you think would happen if this feature did not exist, people magically tolerating your opinion? Mute list, as a system, existed long ago before nostr, and for one simple reason. There are not a nostr dev decision, but a needed social protocol.

Keep in mind that reports are public. You can always shame large accounts for reporting too much. Especially if it is unjustified. And other large accounts can also report the malicious large account reporters.

That's the game theory of it. Reports have consequences. And if they are reporting unjustifiably, we all want to see it to reduce our trust in them.

The cases where they create new npubs are solved better by mute words since there is always something they are reusing, like a fixed url either in the post or in their author's profile. If you insert that url into your hidden words, you will hide all new keys.

Anyway, you said it, who needs yo see you will see you, isn’t that the final goal? Your message will reach to the appropriate people and leave any other behind. There is no gain from being heard by people who won’t accept or understand your opinion. If there was, there would not be social networks, but a big global public announcement thread.

If for example calle is one of the people blacklisting me (I saw him mentioned) then people following calle might not see me talking about why on chain cryptocurrency is better than lightning, which is great for calle because calle is always shilling lightning products, but not great for users

That’s a good point, muting an account mutes all their interactions, not only the bad ones (considered bad by whoever blocks you, not objectively bad). But it can be fixed by creating a different account and using it to talk about lightning, without it affecting your search.

Switching to a new npub would impact my reach due to the follow based system

+ another issue: nostr doesn't reliably keep posts long term, my main npub has Primal taking care of that which they probably won't do for additional npubs because they seem to hate me

Social networks work by set of rules given by its leaders and those imply restrictions masked in so many stuff. I know everything designed by man is flawed and it can be abused. This will be too in so many ways.

but there is no restriction being goobally applied in nostr, nostr is just a standard protocol. The only reason it’s standarised is to enable compatibility between similar clients. You are not obligated to follow this though. You can post in your own relay, use your own event kinds or even stop following standard rules. They are not imposed by force.

You can go to France and start speaking Russian… but do not expect people to follow or understand. Freedom of speech doesn’t work without freedom of listening.

So im right... ✨️🥳🤷‍♀️

You and me can now type here till tomorrow because I see flaws in every statement you make that you may not

I just want to rather excuse myself and do some fun on nostr while you gentlemens discuss this further. Ill be out after this. Thanks all amd have a good day ahead.

Is this the real account or just one of fuckstrs cloned alt accounts?

The hell are you talking about ? Real people of nostr who follow me know how real I am. If you have doubt take your sweet time and find out on my feed. Im doxxed ... live and representing my own self.

She has a point. WoT censorship can be gamed in nasty ways if we're not careful. Also echochamber effects. Handle with care. If a clique can do a heathers on anyone they don't like, parts of Nostr will turn into high schools.

Unpopular opinions will die fast. Communities will schism quickly on controversial issues. And it advantages people who don't offend anyone and could have a chilling effect on what people are willing to say.

Not to be old fashioned, but my grandmother told me to judge people for myself and not to put much stock in what other people say about them. It was good advice and has kept me out of drama and made me some of my most authentic friends.

I don't just want to hear from people that most people I know agree with.

Perhaps focusing WoT on positive signals is a safer path? There are other ways to impose costs on spammers.