Really interesting conversation. Worth a listen.
Discussion
I'm ~10min in and this guy is hilarious 🤣🤣🤣 loving his explanations. But its soooo true!
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Thank you for sharing this. It provoked a lot of thoughts.
My taxonomy is a bit different from Sexton’s. He draws a distinction between love and pair bonding. I would rather distinguish between two types of love: romantic love and what the Greeks referred to as storge. I think we mean the same things, though.
When I was younger, I was skeptical of the institution of marriage. I didn’t like the idea of the government defining my relationships, and I also lacked confidence that I could be happy with one person until death. Lately, however, I’ve begun to wonder if I should have married after all. But this video makes me think I might have been right not to. Maybe longer life spans and cheaper communication have made marriage obsolete. Maybe we should just accept the impermanence of all things, including pair bonds.
Sexton may be neglecting the signaling function of not asking for a prenup. It shows that you have stakes in the marriage. By asking for a prenup, especially in a society where that is not the norm, you’re voting no confidence and risking nothing.
I think he drew a distinction between marriage and pair bonding. The way he spoke of pair bonding was like that was the state of being in love that we commonly speak about. But that marriage is a legal arrangement. I think marriage and pair bonding can go hand in hand. I also think pair bonding can last until death without a marriage certificate. I think he was pretty clear on the differences. I think marriage confers legal rights and responsibilities that many are not aware of when they enter into a union. Simply because there is societal pressure to marry if you are in love or romantic partners. Instead of marrying simply for love one needs to consider the rights and responsibilities conferred on you by the state and ask is this best for us as individuals and our relationship? That asking those questions and discussing them with your partner is an act of love and consideration itself.
I also appreciated his take on prenups. That those who take the time to have those discussions and draw up a prenup are less likely to ever use them in his experience. Communication is so important in a relationship. We all have so many ideas about what a romantic relationship and a marriage should be. We shouldn’t just assume that we’re on the same page but actually discuss it. I have a friend who says he believes assumptions and communication tend to be the root of problems. I’d rather communicate up front about my and my partner’s assumptions and expectations of a relationship and/or marriage. My parents have been married for over 40 years. Watching them it’s evident that those discussions need to continue to happen. They’re sometimes disgustingly in love. I want that for myself but still sometimes have the reaction of “Mom and Dad get a room.”
Anyway I’m pro prenup not just to have those discussions beforehand. (I’m also very pro premarital counseling.) I think a prenup should it ever need to be used, and I don’t believe one should ever enter a marriage planning to divorce, is a gift to your future selves. It allows you to focus on your emotions during a split instead of focusing on how to disentangle your finances.
I think we agree. Pair bonding doesn’t require marriage, but does need honest communication. A prenup makes logical sense given the uncertainty of the future, but it’s difficult to imagine having that conversation without fear.
Is it possible to be in an intimate relationship without fear surfacing and having to overcome that?
I don’t know. An intimate relationship is an attachment. In theory, a stoic would be unconcerned about losing it, because his or her happiness isn’t dependent on other people. I find it difficult to take that attitude.
I don’t know that I would want to be in a serious relationship that I felt unattached to losing. I think it’s also common to have a fear of truly being seen. Intimate relationships are frequently a mirror.
Yeah, I know. Then one person tries to be cool instead of genuine, which sabotages the intimacy.
Sometimes you’ve got to put your heart on the table and hand someone a butcher’s knife. Risk getting hurt. I don’t know how people get into romantic relationships without taking risks. You’ve got to find someone you can be your normal dorky self with or who wants to push past the barrier of you trying to play it cool. Sometimes it seems like a miracle two people ever fall in love and have a relationship.