Nostr Web Client

They're all moving to Substack now.

People we'd actually love to have around here, because of their great content, are all heading over to Substack.

And honestly, that's where the better content is showing up these days. My rarely used RSS reader is happy about it.

This is what you get for being stingy with zaps. This is what you get for pushing so-called “personalities” who only throw around shallow slogans. This is what you get for being intellectually limited. Cult-like behavior.

Screw decentralizing content if it doesn't even let you delete or edit stuff. If it doesn’t give you real control over your own content. If it tries to preserve every damn “GM” forever. First, make some good content, then we’ll talk. Content is still king. Data hygiene still matters.

Go ahead, come at me. You won’t win anything by doing so. You’ll just prove my point.

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Discussion

leon_21 8mo ago

Sorry for your loss

alp 8mo ago

What is that even supposed to mean?

leon_21 8mo ago

You will figure that out eventually

alp 8mo ago

Oooh master, please enlighten me. I'm so new to Nostr and I'm so young and inexperienced. Please enlighten me with your wisdom.

leon_21 8mo ago

Nostr is going where it is going and that is fine.

No whining screeching or crying will change this.

Give it time.

Rome hasn't been built in a day.

Bitcoin is still in it's infancy after 16 years.

People will eventually come for the revolution.

In the meantime keep on building🫡

alp 8mo ago

Always the same old crap.

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

This is what they said on repeat at SSB., which at the time had 30k daily actives spread over multiple clients and felt like it was the future (somehow, kinda).

-SSB is a protocol, it can never go away...

-As long as we the founding community are here...

-Give it time...

-Rome isn't built in a day...

The immortal protocol fallacy.

And where is SSB now? It's in a vegetative state, for all intents and purposes.

The easy swat-away is to say "oh well SSB was crap and Nostr isn't". But SSB is one of many such examples from many protocol areas. Most protocols don't make it, that's just how it is. ATProto, Nostr, Farcaster, Holepunch, Pubky, they all claim to be the future (Farcaster people talk *exactly* like Nostr people sometimes, almost verbatim) but they all won't be here in 5 years, or at least here in a non-vegetative state. Laws of nature.

Nostr needs users—a lot of users—and revenue, and soon. Just keep building will be the end of Nostr if we're not building the right things, or building too many things, or building at the expense of fixing.

So nostr:nprofile1qythwumn8ghj76twvfhhstnp0faxzmt09ehx2ap0qy28wumn8ghj76n9d3k8jenfwd5zumrpdejqqg84yl8ewr8zvrn5ycfpf0mp968htfvakxp4a4lyq5ejdslktc3jacw7kzg6 I for one applaud your quote-unquote screeching; I sense it's from the heart and a dose of what Nostr needs to get to better health.

alp 8mo ago

I'd like to zap that, but unfortunately:

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

Yikes, what happened there? Time to spin up your own radioisotope-thermoelectric-generator-powered node in the shed.

Housepainter 8mo ago

I never understood why people post all their content on 3 rd party platforms, decentralised or otherwise. Unless you control your server or relay it's out of your hands, you are the product.

In 2009 I followed the approach of wiser heads than me.

publish original content on your own self hosted platforms, and share snippets of that content around the internet to encourage social media followers to check the original content.

I'm not adheríng so close to that strategy with Nostr, yet. But I'm sure the end Game is to have a Nostr relay and mothball my self hosted wordpress home so all core content is easily sent out in different formats within the Nostr internet.

We shall see.

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

Yes exactly, and worse, the amount of data a Nostr relay can pull from you and those in your circle is pretty worrying. There could easily be an issue with "honeypot relays", relays that are set up to be fast and convenient, with owners that appear altruistic and on message, and terms of service that say all the right things (and more), but in truth exist to create data profiles of specific people and their followers.

The honeypot relay problem is one not talked about much. The solution is as you say, everyone runs their own relay. But that's basically a PDS.

alp 8mo ago

I think something similar has also been brought up by nostr:npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzq3svyhng9ld8sv44950j957j9vchdktj7cxumsep9mvvjthc2pjuqyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqypwdvafq3rtjgg4ndkmsktec94sr2r3tzf55h96uqyn0klgl6ugcsuzvgrh

Garbage nsec 8mo ago

Ah right, thanks for that. He clearly gets it.

Honestly if I was an at-risk person the last network I'd promote my base to use would be Nostr. I wouldn't trust my base to be able to steer clear of honeypot relays and expose all sorts of things.

As for privacy policy and terms, to a degree that's helpful—but any honeypot relay would also have honeypot terms.

alp 8mo ago

That too. And in this regard, it's also easier to hold one CEO of a central platform accountable than many, often anonymous relay operators.

BTCrevolutionary 8mo ago

That’s unfortunate, Nostr has alot of promise especially for writers. Sucks they don’t see the value in the ability to monetize with no middle man. There definitely needs to be more diversity of thought and content creation. I’m all about BTC but I’m into other things as well as most people are. We need more other stuff right now

alp 8mo ago

Yes, great potential, great eco system. And Zaps are awesome, still a bit buggy with some Lightning implementations, but awesome.

But no delete, no edit, no real vanish, being trapped in hell threads. I know it's all harder to implement in decentralized environments but it's still the basics.

And then there is this cult-like culture here. A loud, widely celebrated hedonistic, materialistic bunch of "nostrfluencers" posting the simplest stuff. And you see this shit all over your timeline. Except you mute them. And even that doesn't work properly across all clients. Always going on about uncensorability and freedom, but can’t handle even the slightest bit of valid criticism. That’s cult behavior, not a healthy community.

I’m seeing parallels to the OP_RETURN debate here too. Devs set the tone, not the users. It's "If you’re just a user, shut up". What happened to user-centric approach? That should be common knowledge by now.

We've been saying, there's no diversity, for 2 years now and it won't change in the next 2 years.

ابو مريم 8mo ago

I looked at substack 2 years ago when I was starting on nostr and it was clear to me that nostr had more potential. I have no issue with delete (if you are intentionally publishing content for public view what purpose does delete hold? Delete can and does work on private relays so if that's something you want, and we should, then those are spaces that need to grow) and edit is possible for articles (I've used it myself). I also don't feel like I'm stingy with zaps but open to feedback there although I feel its an area that could be relative. I do like that RSS is coming back, this is probably a good thing. And thsnk you for reminding me, I need to go adjust/update my RSS reader 😅

alp 8mo ago

Substack is different now. People from other social media are slowly migrating there and producing great content. They're not coming to Nostr.

What I'm talking about are the basic operations every system should support by now: CRUD (Create, Read, Update, and Delete). We’ve got it in every operating system, every database, every other social media platform. Just not on Nostr? Doesn’t that strike you as odd? Without CRUD, any system is basically useless. My ancient, also decentralized weblog gives me real control over my data. The only downside is the lazy, slightly dumbed-down audience that never reaches it. But it wasn’t always like this. Social media made everyone lazy. Cheap audience for minimal effort, in return for algorithms and ads. The internet was always decentralized to begin with. With anonymous hosting in Finland, I’m uncensorable too. So what’s really left of Nostr?

Zaps. You’re generous with those, no doubt. But the rest? “Value for Value” never really worked. Just look at the celebrities who show up here, say “hi” once, collect $1000 in Zaps, and never come back.

ابو مريم 8mo ago

Reminds me of the Patreon fad a decade ago. So what if they are the hot platform currently. It has not viable end case for me. And I have no problem with Substack working in tandemn with nostr, that sounds great actually.

imo we already have CRUD. Maybe not the same as with other platforms, but it does exist and works fine. We can also change it later. The devs working on community clients are were this conversation is active and right now the feel is to go lite on moderation due to heavy mod backlash from fediverse. Relay operators can still choose to go heavy on delete if they want. Start with building consensus there before demanding large public clients all adopt similar. Chat apps would probably be another area to explore delete. Point is we have it already and I personallly don't understand the need to advance it much beyond hownit currently functions (although very open to hearing diferent perspectives). To argue we need it because everyone else has it and that without we are flawed just doesn't match with what I have experienced on nostr.

ODELL 8mo ago

the biggest issue with long form content on nostr right now is the lack of stable tools for editing and publishing

we will fix this with primal, first class long form publishing experience soon