Name one app that combines Nip-04 and Nip-17 messaging succesfully.
Discussion
0xChat?
It (only) allows you to respond to NIp-04 WITH Nip-17, in the same conversation.
As if the other person can totally see that in their Nip-04.
The blending of different specs under one banner "DMs" is causing tons of messages to never be seen.
Got it. I mean, NIP-04 is deprecated, but I do understand that losing messages during the transition is bad.
Amethyst is Okay...ish in this regard, although it took me a while to figure out that the spy with a hat thing was a toggle button between NIP-04 and NIP-17 when writing messages.
Yup exactly.
Nip-04 → Deprecate asap
Nip-17 → Use Mail UX and terminology, because it's not "DMs" nor "Private Groups". It's messages going from one mailbox to others.
Nip-EE → Private Groups, with something that you can actually call "Chat".
#subscribed
You mean this UX of showing a 🟠 that I can't even click or hover on?
And mixing them in one feed as if the other person(s) are in that same room/channel.
Which isn't a room/channel at all.
The hover is present:
Mixing them make perfect sense to me since they are in a single conversation between *two* people (groups/rooms, what do they have to do here?) that can use different clients; and so in this NIP-4-deprecation phase they can have a coherent and continuous conversation.
Nobody should. Nip-04 is trash and most apps need to fully delete it.
:110percent:
Amethyst is in a good position to set the example... Some users won't like it, but devs are doing it regardless. E.g., nostr:nprofile1qqsw9n8heusyq0el9f99tveg7r0rhcu9tznatuekxt764m78ymqu36cpr3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucnfw33k76twwpshy6ewvdhk6tcpzdmhxue69uhhwmm59e6hg7r09ehkuef0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtn4w3ux7tn0dejj7ne6u4e started blocking NIP-04 on Haven 6 months ago. My own build has an obscure flag to re-enable it as there are still laggards using NIP-04 to message me and clients that don't support anything else. If you ask me I wouldn't blame you for removing NIP-04 support from Amethyst at all.
yes
Wait, why is amethyst still using it then?
Mostly because we were the first ones to code the next version and had to provide a transition. But we are going to drop it soon.
This is not so aligned with the fact that in Amethyst NIP-17 is still opt-in, and it's also hidden behind an obscure little icon. Right? :)
You should make it the default, remove NIP-04 sending, but of course keep the receiving part to preserve the old conversations intact.
Then, if no kind 10050 can be found for the recipient, maybe you can let the user send a single default message, as NIP-04, with a link to a tutorial when he can learn how to upgrade to NIP-17.
This would be a sensate way to deprecate NIP-04 and promote NIP-17, given also the large audience that Amethyst has.
No, we have been default NIP-17 since last year. But it checks if the receiver has NIP-17 relays. Otherwise, it still reverts back to NIP-04.
Now most people already have NIP-17 relays. So, things are much better.
Oh, this is better, for sure.
I tried to open your DM view and NIP-17 wasn't enabled, now entering again the icon is actived, probably a lag that confused me.
However, why not make it the default and then manage the fallback? And why let the user deactivate it reverting to NIP-04?
I would start to force the transition, as suggested.
It will always check first if the receiver you are trying to talk to has a DM Relay list, which sometimes takes a while to find, dending on the outbox relays of the user.
We allowed people to revert mostly because Damus and Primal have not migrated yet. So, they at least had an option to reach out to them.
Waiting for the "big boys" only makes them bigger and the UX of the waiting apps worse.
Actually, I was waiting for the small guys to take over the basic chat function from the big boys, but they never did. So... I guess forcing it is
Taking over = Building a better daily driver. Not just Nip-17.
Peeps don't go to other apps for basic functions.
They go to other apps to create, display or find the niche, funky, advanced content types their daily driver(s) don't handle.
Chat is not one of those content types.
It's the n°1 daily use content type.
Still makes me lol, that it's the farmer that only really codes since half a year that is taking this challenge head on.
Slow and steady 🐢, better daily driver here we come!
I think people are overcomplicating chats by a lot.
2 Billion people use WhatsApp for the chat function alone. No other function is needed. They don't even have a notifications tab. No zaps. Reactions barely work and most people don't even know its there.
It's not about the amount of features. It's about a very usable core feature set.
Copy that core feature set and see who switches for that. Crickets.
WhatsApp has network + the core feature set they have is underestimated AF by devs here.
The image handling alone :eyes:
Too bad we can't do the opposite and "delete our Nip-04 relays" to signal that we don't look for that stuff, haha 😉
Probably the best / least-bad example indeed!
Nip21 😉😅😍