This thing has been lost the very first day. Stop the meat grinder!
Discussion
They're Ukrainians. They have two states: peremoga and zrada. Victory and betrayal. One ALWAYS replaces the other in their rhetoric, so don't be fooled by their current words, it makes absolutely no sense, simply because both in the state of zrada and in the state of peremoga they are actually in the same rather worthless position.
Mmmmh. I argued from a neutral standpoint and made arguements concerning the russian energy position, alliances and military progress from the first day on. Nobody listened.