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If the road is clear, she's not obstructing. Your video shows multiple cars passing by her, which to me means she's not obstructing, so her being parked in the middle of the road is a traffic violation and outside of their jurisdiction.

makeheroism 3d ago

If the car:

• Blocks their vehicle

• Prevents execution of a warrant

• Impedes surveillance or pursuit

• Creates a safety hazard during an operation

Then the legal characterization changes.

At that point, federal agents do have authority to act, because they are no longer addressing “parking” — they are addressing interference.

Possible lawful actions:

• Ordering the driver to move the vehicle

• Temporarily detaining the driver

• Physically moving the vehicle if necessary

• Using force proportional to the need to clear the obstruction

The authority comes from:

• Federal obstruction statutes

• Implied authority to carry out lawful duties

• Officer safety doctrines

They still would not issue a parking citation, but they can neutralize the obstruction.

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AU9913 3d ago

Doesn't look to me like she is blocking traffic. Look at the moment the truck pulls up to her, there is a whole other lane. Also, right before that truck pulls up, another car goes by. It also looks like she even waves them on.

I think this and why the fuck would you stand in front of a car are what the entirety of the argument lie upon.

makeheroism 3d ago

I wasn't there. Were you? All we are going off of are videos that are all from undesirable angles.

Also everything you're saying essentially comes down to officer discretion.

Is this woman not responsible for her own actions? Or does she get a pass for some reason? She was ordered to get out of the vehicle. She didn't comply. She attempted to flee and or strike the agent with her vehicle.

"Why the fuck would you stand in front of a car"

Why wouldn't she just get out of the car when ordered?

Think she would still be alive if she just complied? Why do you believe she doesn't have to comply with orders given by a federal agent?

AU9913 3d ago

Definitely would agree on complying leads to her being alive, doesn't make shooting her the right move. Could have just got her plate and issued a warrant. But you can't answer my question with a question. Highway patrol doesn't start in the middle of the street while writing tickets. Why? Because that is retarded. Just because you're a federal agent doesn't mean you get to act retarded and are exempt from the consequences of your actions.

Your Officer Discrection point is valid until he uses unnecessary deadly force. Even the laws you cited say using proportional force, it's very obvious that he is escalating, not using proportional force OR he is intentionally using his body as a barrier of which the possible consequence is getting hit.

makeheroism 3d ago

The woman was ordered to get out of the vehicle. She didn't comply. She attempted to flee and potentially attempted to strike the officer with her vehicle. It is up to the discretion of the officer how they choose to handle that.

"Unnecessary force" is not an objective statement. Again this is decided by the officer.

Your argument is that the woman should've just been allowed to flee a crime by federal agents. Pretty certain that's not what the title of Law Enforcement is generally paid to do on a conceptual level.

It really doesn't matter IF you agree with it.

AU9913 3d ago

What crime did she commit? If you're gunna say obstruction, watch the video, there are dozens of cars passing her.

makeheroism 3d ago

Do you honestly believe when I'm saying "obstruction" I mean that she's obstructing traffic? Is that a serious take?

I already posted this once I guess you didn't read it the first time so maybe you should take the time to read it aloud to yourself so you can grasp the content better.

If the car:

• Blocks their vehicle

• Prevents execution of a warrant

• Impedes surveillance or pursuit

• Creates a safety hazard during an operation

Then the legal characterization changes.

At that point, federal agents do have authority to act, because they are no longer addressing “parking” — they are addressing interference.

Possible lawful actions:

• Ordering the driver to move the vehicle

• Temporarily detaining the driver

• Physically moving the vehicle if necessary

• Using force proportional to the need to clear the obstruction

The authority comes from:

• Federal obstruction statutes

• Implied authority to carry out lawful duties

• Officer safety doctrines

They still would not issue a parking citation, but they can neutralize the obstruction.

Here's more information that you could be looking up all on your own but I guess you need your hand held.

Criminal obstruction:

Intentional or knowing conduct that materially interferes with a law enforcement officer’s lawful duties, beyond mere speech or presence.

Impeding surveillance:

Purposeful acts that materially disrupt or expose lawful law enforcement monitoring activities.

Impeding pursuit:

Conduct that physically or practically prevents officers from lawfully chasing or apprehending a suspect.

This is all just out there and you can read I think so? I guess you should be taking the time to do that instead of throwing a hissy fit cause you don't like that some dumb lady got killed? I don't know? Maybe you just really like immigrants or something?

AU9913 3d ago

Do you honestly believe when I'm saying "obstruction" I mean that she's obstructing traffic? Is that a serious take? (No)

If the car:

• Blocks their vehicle (see video, does not apply)

• Prevents execution of a warrant (not applicable)

• Impedes surveillance or pursuit (not applicable)

• Creates a safety hazard during an operation (not applicable)

Possible lawful actions:

...

• Using force proportional to the need to clear the obstruction (shooting the driver is not proportional)

Criminal obstruction:

Intentional or knowing conduct that materially interferes with a law enforcement officer’s lawful duties, beyond mere speech or presence.

^^^

This point right here disproves your whole argument even-if she was blocking the road.

makeheroism 3d ago

In your opinion.

Your opinion doesn't matter. You know the only person whose opinion really matters in this case?

The agents that were there.

Wanna know why?

It's up to their discretion.

You just don't like that. And that's fine. But it doesn't change anything.

makeheroism 3d ago

Also I really like the cherry picking you did to make your point as if your entire argument wasn't also made moot by this-

"Impeding surveillance:

Purposeful acts that materially disrupt or expose lawful law enforcement monitoring activities.

Impeding pursuit:

Conduct that physically or practically prevents officers from lawfully chasing or apprehending a suspect."

This combined with officer discretion pretty much just ends this entire debate.

Those agents clearly believed that she and her wife were preventing one or both of those things and they needed to be removed from the equation. They were told to exit the vehicle. They didn't. At which point they attempted to flee after committing what was then criminal impeding/obstruction.

It's just completely pointless to talk about any of this because you're going to see what you want to.