This is a shitty attitude and unwelcoming to Nostr newcomers. Fuck off with this. This isn’t a club, it’s a community.
Discussion
I am not too sure what you took offence at, but I assure you I meant none. I do not think it is a bad attitude to tell people to lower their time preference and to work hard and often in order to be rewarded because we are early. In fact, I would consider that one of life’s universal truths. As far as being unwelcoming to newcomers, I have been here for 2 months and you told me to fuck off 😂. Fortunately, I do not hold grudges and rather seek understanding because I believe a community that incorporates these values is better off than one that does not. Do you not agree?
nostr:npub1l5hwyh7saazz4gdhgp9fx4939e25asx74kq6dj9ahrx69lcfxulsudhdrf you get out what you put in. I’ve interacted with you enough on here to see that you’re enjoying the journey and finding Value.
I found out about you guys from hearing your track on Mutton, Mead & Music. Some dude with a music show just happened to play your track and I wouldn’t have never heard of you otherwise.
Thanks so much brother! Glad to see we have built up a bit of good will here in a short time! 🙏
First of all, you’re confusing time preference and proof of work.
But the toxic maxi attitude against newcomers and fellow musicians needs to go.
You’ve been here for two months, them one, and you think you can talk about time preference and say they’re being negative? GTFO.
And he’s absolutely right. Music on here has been struggling. And sending toxic maxi attitude his way is just one example of why.
How about less “get off my corner?”
The proof of work is that his music is good. Hello. 🙄
With you on this one. This is the case for all things. People need to understand that it takes work and dedication to figuring something out. Many times the problems you have are simply due to ego, thinking you already have all the answers. Put in the hard work and research over complaining.
I believe in saying things as it is. If it seems unwelcoming, then tough shit. You aren't thick skinned enough to survive in this biz if someone telling you to work harder is enough to make you leave a space as revolutionary as this.
Some of us believe this is for everyone and rather than staying small, it should grow. And if the small club isn’t appealing, why join? I think Boka told it like it is. He gave valuable insight into how a musician new to this space sees it. We don’t need to be fragile about it.
Scaling must come at the right time and place. We have a significant influx of artists who are willing to put in the work and figure it out. The rate of new uploads have continued to increase over the last 3 years. But I believe the next missing stage is fans because fans are the ones "paying the bills". Without regard to fragility, money still drives things here.
If we only focus on bringing in artists any way we can, no one will stick around if it turns out it wasnt worth their effort. And theres often no second chance. It does more harm than good. That only way its worth it is if we scale fans and artists in lockstep. Right now we need more fans, I am on the front lines of this one for many years now. As you know we represent multiple artists here so Ive seen the progression and changes over the years.
What’s broken here is giving artists more work to do rather than providing a solution. They don’t want more work.
Sometimes one has to do more work in order to achieve their goals.
In a perfect world everything would be easy, sadly I don't live in such a world. ☹️
Making things a little bit harder (and lets be honest it isn't rocket science) is a feature not a bug. A tiny moat is enough to keep out significant amount of slop.
I use either lnbeats or
https://v4vmusic.com/search?type=albums&excludeTags=spam%2Cai%2Cbitcoin
(Scrolling is a bit broken right now - sorry) But when it works it's great. 🙂
Podhome, fountain, wavlake for me
I understand what you are saying and appreciate the passion you have brought to this space. Obviously its hard work being a musician, perfecting your craft, and recording songs to put online. But that is the bare minimum. Once you do all that, even if you are on Spotify or YouTube you have to post often, pitch to playlisters, try and hit the algorithm etc. That's all work that has to be put in outside the actual music. I think the same is true here. You have to be recognized by nostriches, V4VJs etc and build some real connections. It would be great if things were streamlined and artists could be put on every music podcast as soon as they upload and be getting thousands of SATs right away but its not the case. Not right now anyway.
This is a great idea (the part about being put on every music podcast as soon as you upload). Maybe some kind of "upload alert" feature to podcast apps or just a place where podcasters can find this data easily...
nostr:nprofile1qy28wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9enx7atww3skjm3wveksqgp7s2lgunsdydkjc4zfq5jjmmk8ptjldcmdelcx8tuhn74x8pjt95f6n4a3 had this type of thing in RSS Blue...different charts and things. Lots of work to build out this ecosystem, attract more musicians, attract more podcasters...
And this is why I keep saying this needs to be artist led. Artists have the best ideas & know what they need. 🔥
I could be wrong but I feel like most of the v4vjs are parusing the new release section of wavlake or whatever. But if other tools could be built to streamline this I don't see anything bad about that.
I find things either organically these days or ask around about what's good.
Would love if Nostriches would post more fave songs here, liven it up a bit... Social sharing of music could happen a lot more often.
Room for improvement there.
We've all gotta do a better job of amplifying songs & artists, reposting what musicians post on here, things like that. Small things. But they do matter.
If you go to the search tab on LNBeats.com it list all the music being uploaded to podcastindex from newest to oldest. This is what the music shows use to find new music people upload. They check it a few times a week and see if anything stands out that they want to play.
Definitely LNbeats, it’s the only place I used to see newly uploaded tracks.
Lnbeats.com is what most of us have been using to find the latest uploads. I believe v4vmusic.com (its new) has a latest section as well.
Homegrown Hits only plays decentralized music, artists who control their own RSS feed so we can see the actual value splits instead of 100% Platform parsed out in the background. Peer to peer payments are just sexier. It takes an extra step, but we have loyal Hitters supporting those artists we select every Thursday:
MusicSideProject.com makes it easy, but if you have your own website and like DIY:
https://github.com/de-mu/demu-feed-template/blob/master/feed-with-comments.xml
I have looked into this a bit and want to do it. Did not have time to do it for our last release (time is scarce with a 1 year old child). I want to do it for our next release but it seems that we have to find a host site and pay them a monthly fee? Is that correct? If so, how does that make it any more decentralized than using Wavlake? It’s still a third party is it not? I am also very untechy lol. I am practically a Luddite compared to most nostriches 😂.
Best person to ask is nostr:nprofile1qqsxj7j6m0urzhm8lgsalud8aqz5zt4a52s6mhep3g8e8cg6hte03rqhjfp35 about hosting.
Believe it or not this is a controversial question and therefore a dog whistle to certain folks on here. Good luck!
Haha sounds like the “not your keys, not your coins” but for music
I can't speak to making the choice as a musician, depends on how much time/money you have and how much you want to do the tech stuff.
I would think it would be easier to tackle as a band with more people in it and maybe someone in the band has tech skills...
vs if you're a solo artist or a duo and maybe no one can handle *one more thing* on top of the rest of the work you need to do.
Some on here will tell you there's only 1 way to do things. I believe in choice...
Yeah for sure. I definitely will look into it. Might as well do as much as we can to be as independent as possible
Congrats on your child! 💜🙏🏻 Mama of 5 here with a 1 year old as well. One is such a fun age!
I'm happy to tell you you're overcomplicating this. This is all about maintaining control of your RSS feed, the source of truth. As long as it remains in your complete control, your music will never be censored or rugpulled and anything can be updated at any time. Plus, you can put in unlimited value splits that go straight to the contributing artists.
There are some free or cheap hosting options but yes they are third party dependent. You can self-host but that's a different adventure for a different note.
Also should you need any help with any of this self hosting stuff, there are a ton of us here on nostr, irc, telegram, mastodon, etc. that are more than happy to help. Just ask nostr:nprofile1qqspdj6t8rlf5aytvcy0dfvkjyue9h79pyr9ynyrz8xnvz7yqg32h9qpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj76xfn5g and nostr:nprofile1qqs9qzn25rmt82te2lwh5cucje0nw35snmaw47cxplyurmg8eg5cu9spz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgjwaehxw309ahx7um5wgerztnrdakj7qgswaehxw309ahx7um5wghx6mmd9u9ydu77 and nostr:nprofile1qqsgufllkhymhrxaqyc6meh05jw4d4qpk4pym87lnf37qax4y7c8zhqpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3ezucnpdejz7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z70285xw 😁
YES, nostr:nprofile1qqsr5qnsn6medetj3vexljqqvy99gfdrgsp7hs9f52kdvrryz6gwkrspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsskqexd also. He has put together tons of lightning-enabled live events for musicians around the world. And all these people Libre tagged will teach and empower YOU to do it yourself. Then you learn and teach others, and the cycle continues. 💜
Boo-bury++
Great! Thanks so much! After Christmas I will probably try again and potentially reach out to some of these people! 👍
Looks like they have a website so maybe could host it there someday.
https://strangeloveofmusic.wixsite.com/strangelove
It's really about having full control over your RSS feed that all of this runs on but for now nostr:npub1l5hwyh7saazz4gdhgp9fx4939e25asx74kq6dj9ahrx69lcfxulsudhdrf just enjoy the ride.
Yes we put together a wix site that has some of our music up on it. Was wondering if that would work to self host. Hopefully we can figure out early in the new year.
Thanks so much! Never knew how good being a dad could be until you see the little guy smile at you and excitedly yells “Daddy!” 😂. We will probably start working on another next year! And this whole self hosting thing sounds like the self custody wallet vs custodial/L2 wallet. I am a self custody man so I would like to self custody my music as well. And I would love to get on your show! After Christmas I am hoping to have some more time to figure this out for our next release!
YES YES YES! Dude, once you release a DeMu album, nostr:nprofile1qqswf96y4qf8e7kv4dj4hcrer0hwyenacv8m5a9p0s0h3kj42lzwp8qpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszythwden5te0dehhxarj9ekxzmny9uq3zamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0s8a4k8 and I would LOVE to have y'all on the show for a listen party / very relaxed interview format.
And it absolutely IS self-custodying of your music, just like self-custodying your money. 💪🏻 So glad you get it. You said it better than me!
Merry Christmas to you and yours. 🎄
Hey that sounds great! And like a lot of fun! Wouldn’t mind at all coming on for an interview! Thanks so much and Merry Christmas!
The ability to chose how sovereign you want to be is the real killer feature. You can be entirely self sovereign by hosting your feed and files on your own server in your basement. Or you can fully trust a centralized custodian to host and build your feeds for you. There's other flavors in between as well.
Imo as long as you're in control of your feeds and files, the tradeoffs for convenience and associated risks are yours to take as you see fit. Im here for all of it.
More fans for sure. It’s about getting your music heard.
Yes more listeners coming along with more artists is key to sustainability for sure. I think some artists that come into this space have to play the role of both artist and fan until the space really takes off. But I am so greatful for all the new listeners we have gained and also the new music we have been exposed to and joined on these platforms and protocols!
Its a beautiful thing. Heres how I see it...
If we can get X artists over... and each of them brings a couple of their hardcore biggest fans with them... those fans will find other amazing new DeMu music and become fans there too. These are the type of people who'll actually monetarily support an artist they love.
All it takes is a few fans per artist to cross-pollinate a whole new hardcore fan base for everyone. When other artists see whats happening, the next wave of artists and their fans will come. Thats how we scale, stairstep in waves.
And another thing - for the artists here on nostr. I want to see more behind the scenes and nostr exclusive content. This is what will draw the hardcore fans. The ones who will go the extra mile to download an obscure app and a bitcoin wallet just to support you.
Value for value.
If you expect that from them, you should provide value back. Give them a reason to get up and join you here instead of staying comfortably where they are.
We are not just preaching at you - I have been pushing all of my artists for the same and working on our own DeMu/nostr only initiatives
Yeah that sound like a good plan. Our latest release was a live album that we have never released anywhere until now. And it’s V4V exclusive!
Staying big or small has nothing to do with what im talking about. I've been a huge proponent of scaling from the start. Im sure youve seen my quick case study on the Retrograde's 2024 earnings and how all we need is to scale up.
Yes its good to have insight from new artists. Thats one thing sure, but lets be nuanced here. To suddenly jump into a space thats been grinding hard for years building for free on your behalf..., and to provide your "insight" in the form of "here are all the problems you need to fix" (without having done the proper research into those very problems that have already been fixed) is simply naive at best. There's a right way and wrong way to approach a community as an outsider. Thats on them, not us.
Again, comes off as unwelcoming. I’ve been doing this for a couple years too. I have “research” too. There are a ton of problems that need to be fixed here. Happy to call them out, happy to fix them. Just because I don’t do things the way a certain group likes doesn’t negate my work at all. I wish you all well.
This isn't an us against them thing. No one is negating anyone's work in this space. Everyone's pushing forward their way and Im here for that.
Yes it may come off as unwelcoming but you can read into tone or action. if you follow the progression, many people chimed in with helpful answers to their problems and genuine attempts to help with answers.
Its one thing to be welcoming, its another to take FUD laying down. You literally took the words out of my mouth. Just because our working solutions aren't the way a certain group likes to do things, doesnt mean our efforts shld be negated either by spreading FUD thats ultimately damaging to the entire ecosystem (regardless what moniker you use)
The solutions that exist may not be the prettiest and take some work to learn, but that learning before complaining is the proof of work that nostr:nprofile1qqs06thztlgw73p25xm5qj5n2jcju42wcr02mqdxez7m3ndzluynw0cpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduq3qamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wd3skueqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsg3u3nx is talking about. (Heather you've been here long enough you deserve to complain lol)
Just heard nostr:npub1l5hwyh7saazz4gdhgp9fx4939e25asx74kq6dj9ahrx69lcfxulsudhdrf on Mutton, Mead & Music while driving back from my parents house.
Seems to be working to me.
Which platform is this?
Thats the Castamatic podcasting app
Castamatic is an app that runs on the rss protocol. It complies with PC2.0 standards in part by integrating bitcoin lightning tips. It is interoperable such that all RSS feeds published to the podcastindex (regardless where its uploaded from) can appear here and in any other compatible app immediately. Hows that for instant wide distribution?
Uggh, they're not tips, they are payment for value received.
What a warm way to welcome people to the community.....