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Unpopular opinion, but here it goes: UX is the most important problem we need to solve for Bitcoin Privacy.

We can hate on KYC exchanges all we want, but they've got UX nailed down. We cannot expect privacy to become the norm when I have to take an hour out of my day to make a P2P trade.

Now that CASPs will start delisting privacy assets like Monero and blocking coinjoined btc with the EU's new AMLR, we're being stripped of using regulated exchanges even semi-privately. This makes P2P exchanges like BISQ Network even more important, but its of no use to regular users when you need an introductory course in computer science before understanding what's going on in the app.

Privacy will only become the norm when we make it usable for everybody. **If you're a UX designer, copywriter, or in any other way have expertise in UX design, please consider contributing BISQ:** https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq

ℹ️ If you're not a developer, contributing to GitHub projects can be scary. It really doesn't have to be. I can't tell my asshole from a python script either, and if I can do it, you can too.

Here's how to get started:

If you find a UX issue in the BISQ app that could be improved, start by opening an issue in the BISQ github repository. Give it a clear title describing the problem you want to solve.

Add screenshots or videos to your issue showing what the problem is. If you can, add a proposal for a potential solution. Bonus points if you can add wireframes, layouts or clickdummy documentation. For reference, see npub1zqsu3ys4fragn2a5e3lgv69r4rwwhts2fserll402uzr3qeddxfsffcqrs 's work on eNuts: https://github.com/cashubtc/eNuts/issues/341 (I don't know how to tag people here but you get the idea).

In open source projects, questions are your friends. I've spent countless hours asking every dev i know absolutely insufferable questions, and I still dont know how the fuck to get out of VIM. Everybody starts somewhere, and most people are happy to help.

If you already know how to use git or github and can code a little, ask where you could find the corresponding code for your problem in your issue and offer to do a PR. If you can't, ask what assets would be needed to implement your proposal. Remember that people are nice and generally happy about new contributors, even if you're a beginner.

If you have any questions on contributing to open source projects as a non-coder, feel free to reach out anytime. My DMs are open (I think).

waxwing 1y ago

It's a common perception that the problem with things like Bisq (P2P trade) is UI, but it's not.

First, it's crucial to distinguish between P2P trade of fiat for bitcoin and P2P trade of 2 different cryptocurrencies, because they're entirely different animals. I'm only going to talk about the former, because that's the one that really matters, and that's the hard one.

Problem 1: because of the ethically odious AML policies there is substantial real risk from counterparties. If you are receiving dollars/euros into your bank account without first doing a full scale police level investigation into your counterparty you are potentially violating AML and this could impact *your* bank account. Even if you did such investigations, if you start doing multiple such trades your account can easily get flagged and frozen. Nothing I'm saying here is theoretical, it really does happen, a lot.

Problem 2: The process of P2P fiat trade is *intrinsically* not convenient and doesn't give *traders* what they want, which is why it doesn't tend to have volume, and volume is a necessary component for convenience (low spreads, quick matching), to the extent that ordinary users just give up (when you see 15-25% spreads you tend to give up, that is not because you're a lazy user who needs good UI). It's true that e.g. in Europe you have SEPA and very quick bank-to-bank is possible, but it's very precarious and ironically, when problem 2 is solved, problem 1 just reappears quickly anyway.

Problem 1 is mostly solved by avoiding banks and using cash or cash substitutes in *small* amounts only. Localbitcoins had this perfect in the early days, but they got "done" at some point, and sold out to KYC only. I would even argue that a cash-only localbitcoins substitute that's Tor-only might be the best we could do ... if things get tough enough for people I could see them putting up with this inconvenience, but of course this is a world away from the volume you get from degen traders sitting in their bedrooms, who just want braindead point and click. But old localbitcoins for cash *did* work, though it is subject to stings by LEA, you only have to exercise minimal common sense to avoid the law coming for you. This is not a "solution" for 6 figure trades though ...

Problem 2, I don't think it really gets solved, if anything it'll get worse over time, as banks for the last decade have only moved in the direction of making conversion of fiat to bitcoin more and more absurdly difficult.

I was chatting a lot with Manfred Karrer right at the time he invented Bitsquare, I even managed to convince him not to use MAD 2 of 2 multisig, so you can blame me on that, and I tried it in the early days. It was honestly decent in UI even then (yes I know it *looks* complicated, but I mean, try using Interactive Brokers interface to trade stocks, it just takes a little time), and I'm sure it's way better now. IMHO, The problem is not UI.

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Discussion

Flix 1y ago

LOL. I kept trying to convince him to use MAD 2-of-2 at the time 😄. You won.

You were probably correct about that...

Flix 1y ago

I still think that there could be room for BTC-fiat MAD 2-of-2 trade protocol... especially for small amounts with an instant payment method.

For BTC-altcoins atomic swaps are just superior to any multisig... as BTC-BSQ swaps have shown.

L0la L33tz 1y ago

I fundamentally disagree with this for several reasons.

First, re counterparty risk, this is what reputation scores are for, and in my experience they work fairly well. Second, I think we are speaking from extremely different perspectives here. When I dont have a means of payment (say bc my bank blocked my account), I really dont care weather I'll pay a premium on my tx because my plan is not do engange in degen trading but to have money to live. Comparing a P2P marketplace necessary for people to transact in private (or even at all) to broker interfaces is not the right approach here imoo.

The point is also not that people are 'lazy users' – of course its nice for stuff to work at the click of a button, but the point is that people can easily be overwhelmed when facing complex systems, keeping them from using them at all – not because they are lazy, but because they dont understand them, which then also speaks to the liquidity issue.

Lastly, and again speaking to perspective, Im not talking about people doing six figure trades here. Im talking about people who earn their income in bitcoin or have no other means of payment and need to pay their bills, who will be facing complete financial exclusion unless they are willing to submit themselves to full surveillance tyranny.

rafael_xmr 1y ago

I agree. When I think of how I would make a p2p dex platform, the app would be just a map, like https://btcmap.org, then users would create trades based on location, and the users are expected to take a trade, go to the location, and exchange the asset (BTC, XMR) for cash, face to face. Not only this simplifies the experience, also solves the issues of trusting digital transfers, banks, etc, and could probably be gamified to look like Uber, Pokemon GO, then it's just a matter of having the app on your phone, and being like "I am going to the mall, I wonder if a XMR trader will be there so I can just take some Monero and after trading make my purchases with Cash there" or vice versa, with the goal to also build strong connections closer to you as we never know how many around us actually want to participate in the same system or not