Replying to Avatar Nunya Bidness

--> Can't edit or delete notes on nostr <--

Hear me out.

What if instead of writing a note that you either want to edit later or delete you instead write a note in "publishing client" that then generates a nostr client renderable URL and it's that URL that gets sent as a note.

You don't know it's a URL because you just see the rendered note in the nostr client.

If I go back and edit the note in my publishing client the URL remains unaffected but the next time someone looks at my note what renders is the edited content of that very same URL? Think of it like the URLs from nostr:nprofile1qy2hwumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcqpqhee433872q2gen90cqh2ypwcq9z7y5ugn23etrd2l2rrwpruss8qxc5787 's GifBuddy: You don't see the URL you just see the rendered gif naively as a note like this

This would probably necessitate that you have to keep your own dedicated hard drive space for the notes or may leverage something like blossom.

nostr:nprofile1qyghwumn8ghj7vf5xqhxvdm69e5k7tcpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsqgpm7rrrljungc6q0tuh5hj7ue863q73qlheu4vywtzwhx42a7j9n5gapjsj , nostr:nprofile1qy28wue69uhkcmmrv9kxsmmnwsargwpk8yhsz8rhwden5te0dphkgmrzdajzucm0wfskxmr99e6x7mmvwvhsqgyhcu9ygdn2v56uz3dnx0uh865xmlwz675emfsccsxxguz6mx8ryg3eee77 , nostr:nprofile1qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq3zamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qqszv6q4uryjzr06xfxxew34wwc5hmjfmfpqn229d72gfegsdn2q3fgfjtyk0 , please tell me how I have either not made myself clear or how I have fundamentally missed a basic tenet of the protocol.

This is basically what addressable events gets us, and in a nostr-native way. The objection to edit has two parts:

1. Mutable state creates lots of weird problems. Either you lose history, which allows authors to rug people and build fraudulent social credit, or you keep all the history. Amethyst's edits keep all the history, which allows fiatjaf to spam everyone on Amethyst. Immutability solves all this, at the expense of not having edit.

2. There are lots of editable types on nostr, e.g. blog posts. The usual topic of conversation is whether *kind 1* notes should be editable. My opinion is that the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of having edits for blog posts, but not for kind 1's (since edits are usually light, made very soon after clicking send, or fraudulent). Another way to think about it is that kind 1's generally have so few words that a single edit is much more likely to change the meaning of something that people have already replied to/reacted to/zapped. Whereas people sort of expect blog posts to change under their feet.

The things immutability buys us are largely invisible, but are way more important than what edit gets us. Which is probably part of the reason youtube doesn't let you edit videos, and twitter didn't have edit for a long time.

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Well said. And I don't need to screenshot this because it will never change

content addressability ftw

I agree.

When I send a gif URL is it sent as a Kind 1? The reason I ask is when you say 'blog post' that's what I'm thinking of in my mind. I write a few words, it's cast as a static URL in a note (kind 1?) and the user sees the words like they always see. When I edit that blog post the URL in the note is unchanged but it's rendered content has changed.

It's clear that the author could use this as a way to rug people in various ways but wouldn't their WoT start taking hits as people who got rugged unfollow the npub?

Images are usually sent as mutable urls, yeah, but nostr:nprofile1qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszynhwden5te0dehhxarjw4jjucm0d5hsz8rhwden5te0wdshgetvd35hgefwdpa8yep3xsujucm0d5hszrtpd3nk7tn4w3ux7tn0dejsqgpxdq27pjfppharynrvhg6h8v2taeya5ssf49zkl9yyu5gxe4qg55nf2h2q is fixing this with blossom, which extends the content addressability to files as well.

> wouldn't their WoT start taking hits as people who got rugged unfollow the npub?

Yes, but that's not really a complete disincentive. Maybe they don't care about their wot and they're trolling, maybe their already famous and they get to be deceptive about what they've said publicly (c.f. SBF).

There are other reasons listed in nostr:nprofile1qydhwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnhv4ehgetjde38gcewvdhk6tcprfmhxue69uhhq7tjv9kkjepwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hszymhwden5te0wahhgtn4w3ux7tn0dejj7qgkwaehxw309a3x2an09ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hszxrhwden5te0v96zumn0wd68yam0wf4hxtnrdakj7qpq80cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyvuudm's article he linked above, one of which is that edits with history are quite complex, and raise the bar for developers to prototype new clients.

Man, this whole issue is way more fascinating than I would have thought.

It's deep. I tried to explain it more theoretically here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-5DHymkfzw. Referential transparency is a superpower.

I’m just happy to be included 😂

Look here, lemonhead, how dare I NOT include you?

That'd just be plain rude.

"...maybe their already famous and they get to be deceptive about what they've said publicly (c.f. SBF).

People in positions of power say a lot of deceptive things. The ability to rewrite history (aka 1984 sytle) is a wonderful tool for cultivating that power. Look at legacy media.

I want to see nostr other-stuff that starts copying everything these elite say and publish it for the immutable record. It will not take long after to see who are the tyrants, and who are the prophets.

Do blog posts show in the most popular clients saving the other notes? Nostr can’t be a place for serious writing (as in articles, newsletters, etc) without an edit button.

Blog posts are editable, it's just kind 1's that shouldn't be

In that case you should edit your blog post to remove https://zap.stream from the list of niños otherwise nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx will be sad.

Why not? That guy on Twitter Krueger launched a shitcoin the other day and deleted all the related tweets afterwards. People still remember, call him out and comment with evidence on all his new tweets.

And what happens for example if a youngster posts something that he/she will regret the morning after?

Why does immutability have to be a parameter in a social credit system?

Posts a kind 1: "Like and boost if you look forward to fiat finally dying and Bitcoin taking over as the global medium of exchange."

Waits for a bunch of Bitcoiners to like and boost.

Edits the post: "Like and boost if you look forward to XRP flipping Bitcoin this cycle!"

#rugstr

We have delete, and despite my initial reservations it works pretty well.

The more I think about the more I’m in agreement.